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Old 11-15-2021, 03:40 PM   #1611
MechatronicsENGR
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller

Hi Gents,

New to the forum. this is my first post. Forgive me if this is the wrong place to ask this question of if my etiquette is improper.

To begin, I've read the for the 1236SE OS 31 front to back. So I was quite happy to stumble on this forum I couldn't find a many websites talking about the Curtis controller in as much detail any where else except here.

I have the 1313-4401 Handheld programmer and I am using the 1236SE-65xx controller with a PMAC motor for a motorcycle. I've got system programmed however, two problems I have currently.

1. The Throttle response is quite low. It takes a long time to reach a speed of 55mph
2. There seems to be very little torque despite running in torque mode and the drive current is at 100%

===
A brief note on the system as a whole:
The batteries being used can output 400 amps continuous and are Li-po cells at 20s2p at 16Ah (this is supposed to be a run hard, fast, and in short burst for a small motorcycle test bed/ prototype). At a max voltage at set at 4.1 volts per cell I expect the motor to be at 3500~ish RPM with a gear ratio of about 2.5:1 with a wheel of 26in Dia. The main goal I was tasked with is the be able to to a short burnout.

This is my first time working with this motor controller and just looking for some guidance or readings for programming the responsiveness. I am sure it is something silly I am over looking for this type of tuning. Or is it that the controller is not capable? Any guidance is appreciated.

Thank you
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Old 11-17-2021, 07:25 AM   #1612
BobBoyce
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechatronicsENGR View Post
Hi Gents,

New to the forum. this is my first post. Forgive me if this is the wrong place to ask this question of if my etiquette is improper.

To begin, I've read the for the 1236SE OS 31 front to back. So I was quite happy to stumble on this forum I couldn't find a many websites talking about the Curtis controller in as much detail any where else except here.

I have the 1313-4401 Handheld programmer and I am using the 1236SE-65xx controller with a PMAC motor for a motorcycle. I've got system programmed however, two problems I have currently.

1. The Throttle response is quite low. It takes a long time to reach a speed of 55mph
2. There seems to be very little torque despite running in torque mode and the drive current is at 100%

===
A brief note on the system as a whole:
The batteries being used can output 400 amps continuous and are Li-po cells at 20s2p at 16Ah (this is supposed to be a run hard, fast, and in short burst for a small motorcycle test bed/ prototype). At a max voltage at set at 4.1 volts per cell I expect the motor to be at 3500~ish RPM with a gear ratio of about 2.5:1 with a wheel of 26in Dia. The main goal I was tasked with is the be able to to a short burnout.

This is my first time working with this motor controller and just looking for some guidance or readings for programming the responsiveness. I am sure it is something silly I am over looking for this type of tuning. Or is it that the controller is not capable? Any guidance is appreciated.

Thank you
It's not something silly. You are running into the preset limits that are in the VCL (Vehicle Control Language) that is compiled into the controller OS. There are multiple operational limits within each VCL, that are unknown to users of the programming available at OEM. When I state that a controller is corrupted because someone has tampered with settings, those ignorant to the software at the highest level mistakenly tell others it is a simple Mode selection adjustment. That is NOT the corruption I speak of... If the factory checksum of the controllers memory is not an exact match to the stored checkum, it fails a security check that must match, along with a preprogrammed password sequence. Without an exact match, that controller cannot be set to another one of the 3 possible modes of operation allowable under most EV manufacturers VCLs. In common jargon, it would be Golf Cart, LSV (Low Speed Vehicles of up to 25 MPH), or MSV (Medium Speed Vehicles of up to 35 MPH). These operational parameter ranges are only supported by EV manufacturers that incorporate those abilities into their VCL. So, if any changes have been made to a controller to alter its settings, that will alter the base checksum from the factory stored value, and the controller cannot be unlocked with the password sequence so that it can support the higher VCL functionality.

I've given up on trying to prevent others from corrupting their controllers checksums, as those recommending others to mess with settings outnumber my advice. If they want to alter their mode setting, they can live with the consequences of living with a locked controller that cannot be upgraded to an LSV or MSV by an OEM manufacturer. It requires a new controller, or a manufacturer reflash to the correct stock OS/VCL file to restore the factory checksum. This is one of the reasons that I wanted to stop doing trips to do these reprogrammings. I became tired of having to undo problems caused by more and more dealers and amatuers messing with settings.

Essentially, there are limits that you cannot access. The answer is likely not able to be met with the vehicle type that your controller is set to. Most come preset to the Golf Cart selection within the VCL options. The Mode option only toggles rabbit/turtle functionality, but does not allow selection of Golf Cart/LSV/MSV modes. Two distinctly different things.

I probably will not respond on this forum anymore. I feel that I just waste my time here.

Bob
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Old 11-17-2021, 02:33 PM   #1613
MechatronicsENGR
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBoyce View Post
It's not something silly. You are running into the preset limits that are in the VCL (Vehicle Control Language) that is compiled into the controller OS. There are multiple operational limits within each VCL, that are unknown to users of the programming available at OEM. When I state that a controller is corrupted because someone has tampered with settings, those ignorant to the software at the highest level mistakenly tell others it is a simple Mode selection adjustment. That is NOT the corruption I speak of... If the factory checksum of the controllers memory is not an exact match to the stored checkum, it fails a security check that must match, along with a preprogrammed password sequence. Without an exact match, that controller cannot be set to another one of the 3 possible modes of operation allowable under most EV manufacturers VCLs. In common jargon, it would be Golf Cart, LSV (Low Speed Vehicles of up to 25 MPH), or MSV (Medium Speed Vehicles of up to 35 MPH). These operational parameter ranges are only supported by EV manufacturers that incorporate those abilities into their VCL. So, if any changes have been made to a controller to alter its settings, that will alter the base checksum from the factory stored value, and the controller cannot be unlocked with the password sequence so that it can support the higher VCL functionality.

I've given up on trying to prevent others from corrupting their controllers checksums, as those recommending others to mess with settings outnumber my advice. If they want to alter their mode setting, they can live with the consequences of living with a locked controller that cannot be upgraded to an LSV or MSV by an OEM manufacturer. It requires a new controller, or a manufacturer reflash to the correct stock OS/VCL file to restore the factory checksum. This is one of the reasons that I wanted to stop doing trips to do these reprogrammings. I became tired of having to undo problems caused by more and more dealers and amatuers messing with settings.

Essentially, there are limits that you cannot access. The answer is likely not able to be met with the vehicle type that your controller is set to. Most come preset to the Golf Cart selection within the VCL options. The Mode option only toggles rabbit/turtle functionality, but does not allow selection of Golf Cart/LSV/MSV modes. Two distinctly different things.

I probably will not respond on this forum anymore. I feel that I just waste my time here.

Bob
Thank you, Mr. Boyce. Forgive me for my lack of understanding on this controller. I was only looking for clarity on how this controller works. This helps me quite a bit. I will tell my client that this controller will not do what he wants to do. I'll look for a different Controller/Inverter for this application going fwd. I work on Inverters from Cascadia Motion, Eaton, and Borg warner, and I understand the difficult of working with proprietary protocols and 'Bricking' controllers... I was only confused as to why I was running into these issues that seems simple.

Thank you again, Mr. Boyce, I am sorry for wasting your time...
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Old 11-18-2021, 11:32 AM   #1614
Imapled
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechatronicsENGR View Post
Thank you, Mr. Boyce. Forgive me for my lack of understanding on this controller. I was only looking for clarity on how this controller works. This helps me quite a bit. I will tell my client that this controller will not do what he wants to do. I'll look for a different Controller/Inverter for this application going fwd. I work on Inverters from Cascadia Motion, Eaton, and Borg warner, and I understand the difficult of working with proprietary protocols and 'Bricking' controllers... I was only confused as to why I was running into these issues that seems simple.

Thank you again, Mr. Boyce, I am sorry for wasting your time...
Check out Dana TM4:

https://www.danatm4.com/products/inverters-2/

But, as you mentioned Cascadia Motion I am sure you may have seen TM4 (SME) stuff. :P :D
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Old 11-18-2021, 12:29 PM   #1615
MechatronicsENGR
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imapled View Post
Check out Dana TM4:

https://www.danatm4.com/products/inverters-2/

But, as you mentioned Cascadia Motion I am sure you may have seen TM4 (SME) stuff. :P :D
I'll take a look at what Dana has. I have not read up on them very much. Thank you.
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Old 12-31-2021, 08:17 PM   #1616
runaboutau
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by satfrx View Post
It seems like ore people had the same idea.

I also made some cables, USB and com-port version.
They come with 4-pin molex connector.

Only to be sold to the home user. Companies should buy the original cable.
I used as much protection as possible to protect for wrong wiring. Just in case you want to change connectors, a small mistake will not cost you your programmer.
Two leds show TX and RX data.

65 usd would cover my expenses to send one world wide.

Contact me via private message if you are interested in a cable.
Hello not sure if your still around but im after a cable or indi how to make a cable so I can connect to and program my Curtis 1228 controller.
Can you possibly help.
Thanks in advance
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Old 01-01-2022, 12:08 PM   #1617
kgsc
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller

Look at pages 114, 120 and 121 of this thread.. If you don’t want to make the ATX connection just buy an extension and cut the end off.
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Old 01-08-2022, 07:10 PM   #1618
ericshufro
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller - signal idle levels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBoyce View Post
Modern controllers will not work with an RS-232-TTL interface, inverted or not. The TTL voltages in recent controllers are no longer 5V either. They use 3.3V logic levels. All of this is now moot, as the interfaces now used must now support BOTH inverted TTL and CANbus protocols over the same port. They must be able to switch on the fly, as handshaking is initialized in inverted TTL, then switches to CANbus. You WILL need to buy a real Curtis 1309 interface if you intend to use a computer to communicate with a Curtis controller made within the past few years. Older controllers will still work with a homebrew interface. 1313 handsets are the same, older ones will not work with the newer controllers.
Thanks Bob. Since my controller is the 1206AC-5201, i was expecting the 1314 software to work with a 5v usb to ttl converter (ftdi) with both rx/tx inverted, and with the Windows FIFOs reduced down to 64 bytes and the latency set to 1. However, while i see rx/tx traffic, the 1314 software always sees errors and in fact crashes at times. Is the 1314 SW compatible with this controller? I wonder if anyone has a scope capture of what the bus should look like. The controller seems to answer at 57,600 bps as opposed to the 9600 bps others have suggested.

Can i send simple commands from Putty to verify if the bus is setup correctly?
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Old 01-08-2022, 07:13 PM   #1619
ericshufro
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller - signal idle levels?

'i' character? In what context is the i or look-alike character used?

Nevermind, found the regedit reference later.

Last edited by ericshufro; 01-08-2022 at 07:28 PM.. Reason: Found the answer
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Old 01-09-2022, 12:39 PM   #1620
kgsc
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Default Re: Programming Curtis Controller - signal idle levels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericshufro View Post
Thanks Bob. Since my controller is the 1206AC-5201, i was expecting the 1314 software to work with a 5v usb to ttl converter (ftdi) with both rx/tx inverted, and with the Windows FIFOs reduced down to 64 bytes and the latency set to 1. However, while i see rx/tx traffic, the 1314 software always sees errors and in fact crashes at times. Is the 1314 SW compatible with this controller? I wonder if anyone has a scope capture of what the bus should look like. The controller seems to answer at 57,600 bps as opposed to the 9600 bps others have suggested.

Can i send simple commands from Putty to verify if the bus is setup correctly?
For what it’s worth, I think some people had problems with the 5 volt cable. Been a while so don’t really remember why but the 3 volt was recommended.
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