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Old 10-07-2020, 11:17 PM   #1
sockeye342
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Talking Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

So it was time to hook up the charger this evening and it did not start it's automatic charge.

The lights on the charger were actually showing as a complete charge cycle, both lights green.

My first thought was it was the charger, but I started checking some things with my multimeter. When there was no voltage at the SB port connection, I figured it wasn't the charger.

I have the Zeva BMS on my pack, so next I checked the HV relay. No continuity, so BINGO! Looks like that is it.

I also notice when I turn on the sleep toggle switch, I usually hear that relay kicking in, but nothing happens.

So I bypassed the relay to see if the charger works and viola, the pack is charging :)

I think I will look for a bit heavy 36v relay as a replacement.
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Old 10-08-2020, 06:30 AM   #2
DaveTM
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Default Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

For my relay setup I crimped the little "gizmo" that is in between the HV & LV relays. It's my homemade bypass. Primarily there should my LV relay malfunction when I'm like 2 miles deep in the woods.

Easier to watch the voltage meter than to attempt a 2 mile walk outta the woods!! Especially when my walking distance is very limited!!

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Old 10-13-2020, 11:14 PM   #3
sockeye342
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Unhappy Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found...OR SO I THOUGHT :(

It seems to not be the relay after all. I disconnected everything and did a test and it kicks in when I apply voltage across the smaller posts and there is full continuity across the larger posts. So the relay itself seems to be fine.

Everything else works fine. The cart runs. accessories work. The BMS has balanced the cells withing .02 volts of each other. LV relay works. It just this HV relay issue.

Everything has been working fine for the past 3 months until last week.

Anyone have any ideas?

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Old 10-14-2020, 06:41 AM   #4
DaveTM
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Default Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

So help me wrap my head around the issue:

1--With the "original" setup you plug in your charger and it doesn't charge.

2--You disconnect "everything" (and I don't know what you mean by "everything") I assume you bypassed the HV relay. What else did you disconnect or bypass? And after disconnecting everything, the charger worked fine.

So...I need a description of what "everything" was that you disconnected. That would be a great help.

Dave
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:39 AM   #5
Sergio
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Default Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

Zeva uses a small SSD for HV control and they are sensitive to inductive loads.

It would be a good idea to remove the wires from that Solenoid small posts and test the diode as well as measure the resistance of the Solenoid coil as some of those cheap solenoids have high power coils.
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:20 PM   #6
sockeye342
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Default Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post
So help me wrap my head around the issue:

1--With the "original" setup you plug in your charger and it doesn't charge.

2--You disconnect "everything" (and I don't know what you mean by "everything") I assume you bypassed the HV relay. What else did you disconnect or bypass? And after disconnecting everything, the charger worked fine.

So...I need a description of what "everything" was that you disconnected. That would be a great help.

Dave
Dave thanks for asking questions and helping. When I disconnect the all the wiring on the setup pictured and do a test of 36 volts on the small posts and a multimeter hooked up on the large posts, the relay kicks in and I have full continuity.

In the current setup you see, I usually plug in my charger and it would auto charge to a max of 41 volts.

As of last week, I get nothing when I plug it in. If I take the CHARGER+ wire and hook it up on the B+ side, basically bypassing the relay, the charger works
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Old 10-14-2020, 02:01 PM   #7
sockeye342
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Default Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Zeva uses a small SSD for HV control and they are sensitive to inductive loads.

It would be a good idea to remove the wires from that Solenoid small posts and test the diode as well as measure the resistance of the Solenoid coil as some of those cheap solenoids have high power coils.
Sergio, thank you for jumping on board. I am not an electrical guy at all, so I appreciate the help.

Before and without the diode in place, I am getting 138 ohms of resistance between the small posts. I don't know what that means but I am guessing it should be close to zero and I should get a new relay???

Suggestions? Maybe from Mouser? I have a 36 volt system

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...Fynnn5YA%3D%3D
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Old 10-14-2020, 02:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

The reason I asked for the coil resistance is to make sure it was not exceeding the 1 amp rating of the Zeva HV Solid State Relay.

The relay you linked to (T9AP1D52-36-01) is the kind I use all the time, it only needs 1 watt of power for the relay to close, yours takes over 11 watts which means it also gets pretty hot during use.

Make sure you test the diode since not having a working diode on the Solenoid/relay coil will damage the Solid State Relay used by Zeva.

Since Your Solenoid clicks when you apply power directly to it, that means the Zeva HV is not providing the negative to close the Solenoid.

It could mean the Zeva Solid State Relay is damaged or there is a wiring or condition keeping it from closing.

Look at the Zeva monitor to make sure no cell is reporting over voltage and that the BMS has a green LED (not red) indicating all ports (LV and HV) should be active.

Check to make sure one side of the Zeva HV relay is connected to pack negative (test to make sure the connection is good) and not the Zeva Ground terminal.
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Old 10-14-2020, 07:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

Well...(or Welp)....if you have bypassed your existing relay and the charger worked, then I would install the relay you referenced https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...Fynnn5YA%3D%3D and see how that plays out.

At least, that's what I would do.

FWIW, I use that same relay....but the 48V version.
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:04 PM   #10
sockeye342
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Default Re: Lithium Pack not charging, but solution is found

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
The reason I asked for the coil resistance is to make sure it was not exceeding the 1 amp rating of the Zeva HV Solid State Relay.

The relay you linked to (T9AP1D52-36-01) is the kind I use all the time, it only needs 1 watt of power for the relay to close, yours takes over 11 watts which means it also gets pretty hot during use.

Make sure you test the diode since not having a working diode on the Solenoid/relay coil will damage the Solid State Relay used by Zeva.

Since Your Solenoid clicks when you apply power directly to it, that means the Zeva HV is not providing the negative to close the Solenoid.

It could mean the Zeva Solid State Relay is damaged or there is a wiring or condition keeping it from closing.

Look at the Zeva monitor to make sure no cell is reporting over voltage and that the BMS has a green LED (not red) indicating all ports (LV and HV) should be active.

Check to make sure one side of the Zeva HV relay is connected to pack negative (test to make sure the connection is good) and not the Zeva Ground terminal.
Relay does get hot, up to 158 degrees. I think I will order one of the low watt relays you use.

I checked the diode, it is @ 0.754 which should be okay...around 0.7 correct?

Voltage is good on the 10 cells...between 3.96 and 3.98 and the BMS light is green and green flashing when in sleep mode via a toggle switch.

When you say "one side of the Zeva HV relay is connected to pack negative", you are talking about the negative connection on the BMS next to the HV connection point, correct? If so, that is fine.

continuity is good on all the wires...

I hate to say it, but it's probably the BMS, huh?
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