G1 starter/generator slow to crank

[Rick Kr]

First time poster and just registered, but very long time reader of BGW.

I have an 86 G1, that I have been fighting a very slow to crank over starter for almost a year.

Here's where I am at:
1. Disconnected all the cables to the starter, and jumpered across the terminals per instructions posted on here directly to the battery. This should eliminate all the connections on the cart being suspect.

2. I can remove the v-belt the starter/gen spins like an airplane. Hook it back up, it just crawls, or even maybe you just hear the relays click. Leave the belt hooked up and remove the spark plug, spins pretty good, fast enough to start it. Put the spark plug back in, goes back to a crawl.

3. I load tested the battery and its passes fine. Also put new brushes in the starter/gen.

I am thinking the starter motor is actually getting weak. Since I have bypassed all the wiring/cables. For what its worth, the starter acts identical when I hook all the wiring/cables back up.

Local starter shop put power on the starter and said "its fine". They don't have a way to check it under a load. They also say they are not sure they can rebuild anyway.

Any ideas? I have never seen an electric motor get weak, maybe this is a first?
Thanks in advance,
Rick

[nwarren9]

I had the same problem this is what I did cleaned off the larger connections to the relays ( I had to use a small file on mine) and wire brushed the studs on the relays. I found one of the posts on the relay would turn clockwise very easily and one of the smaller wires had almost broke completely off,

what I found out there three main of types of relays they are : old type with a square face ,next is the round type with the small wire on the rear of relays yellow and a blue, next is the type has the small wires on the front.
The first two types are ether no longer available or hard to find

So I decide to replace the relays I started looking around for a replacement set. A used relay may be found on ebay but the cost to be more than just buying new relays. If you due your home work you can find a new type around $50.00 to $60.00 each plus shiping. This in my case did nothing at all to the starter working faster.


What I end up doing was replacing the starter along with new relays this made a world of difference "starts like a jet". I went with amazon only because they have a good customer relations with there venders, just make sure the price include shipping.


Some times the cost of new parts is cheaper than the frustration you will have in finding a cure to a problems!!!!!!

[Rick Kr]

FWIW. I used the starter test posted on here by Ky_mike, jumped directly to the battery.

Rick

[caddylac camper]

Rick, you put new brushes in the starter generator but what was the commutator like? Most times in old starters the copper commutator bars gets dragged or migrated over the insulation that seperates them and this reduces the effectiveness of the motor. The only way to fix this is to put the armature in a lathe and turn down the commutator then undercut the insulation slightly. If you go that far then its best to also replace the armature bushings/bearings and give everything a good cleaning. You now have a newly rebuilt starter/generator. The armature itself is tested on a growler that the starter shop should have.

[Rick Kr]

Caddylac Camper,
THANKS. You were spot on regarding the commutator vanes being all loaded up. I ended up cleaning all the commutator vanes and polishing it up on my lathe. I reused the brushes since I had put them in around Christmas. Here's a pic of the action on my 1940 Altas lathe. Still works like a champ.
Cost to rebuild $0.00. Time 3 hrs.

Thanks again,
Rick

[caddylac camper]

Glad you were able to get the starter/generator working again, big plus to have a lathe in your shop. Those older machines were built to last and in good condition do just as good a job as the newer ones, they just need a good operator and a bit more math.