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Old 02-01-2013, 10:08 AM   #1
Dmontgomery
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
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Default out of options.....What Now!!

Ok Ive been working on my 88 ezgo for a few months and to date this is what all ive done

New carb
New crank seals
New brushes
New air/fuel filters
New starter/gen wires
New short belt Dayco HP3004
New starter belt
A variety of new spark plugs tried NGK Champion etc
New motor mounts
I have a spring on accelerator cable

I still have problems! When I go to start it there's a hesitation then it turns over when cold it starts a little after with choke pulled when it gets warmed up it will not run with the choke out now here is what I dont understand the engine will run but not enought Rpms to take, off the engine IS firing its not just the starter turning. If I stop and put it in reverse it has mad power I mean anywhere you want to go. Then I try forward and sometimes it will go IF I push it to get it moving. Ok something else that got me stumped if I take the BRAND NEW air filter out it runs not perfect but a lot better, I thought this would mean more air so ive got the low speed needle set 3 turns out!! Still s.o.s I thought of a k&n but is that going to help? Idk what else to try any ideas? Oh and ive been running 1.5 ozs to 1 gallon could that be my problem doubtful but hell ive tried everything else
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:14 AM   #2
Dmontgomery
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Location: North Carolina
Posts: 161
Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

Compression is good, good spark new clean gas. Im sure I left somethings out will post as I remember them, from half throttle to top speed its fine its the lower rpms that is weak it will easily do 23mph on level ground but that doesn't do me any good if I cant get it moving
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:13 AM   #3
Dmontgomery
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Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

This is the same problem ive been chasing since I bought it, The previous owner said it needed a carb...
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:59 AM   #4
Dave Box
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Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

OK I'll give it a go (although that huge run on sentence makes it somewhat hard to follow).

I still have problems! When I go to start it there's a hesitation then it turns over

That indicates a defective solenoid which is either sticky or has high resistance contacts

when cold it starts a little after with choke pulled

that is how it is supposed to be

when it gets warmed up it will not run with the choke out

again that is how it should be.

now here is what I dont understand the engine will run but not enought Rpms to take, off the engine IS firing its not just the starter turning.

Now here comes the hypothesis (or in layman's terms, wild unsubstantiated guess). You have two problems, the first is a high resistance in the solenoid which is causing a reduced power to the starter. The second is that HP3004 belt, which is so tight it is causing the clutches to permanently engage and thus the starter is trying to drive the cart as well as start the engine.

But wait a minute I hear you say; I said

If I stop and put it in reverse it has mad power I mean anywhere you want to go.

Well that still makes sense because when you stop the engine inertia will keep it spinning until it cannot overcome the next compression stroke whence it stops. If you now try to start the engine in the same direction it is immediately faced with trying to overcome (hopefully) 140 psi compression. If, conversely, you reverse the direction you have almost 270 degrees of rotation to build up some momentum in order to overcome the compression and the first firing.

All of this ties in with

Then I try forward and sometimes it will go IF I push it to get it moving


because you are taking the load off the starter which is trying to turn the back axle.

Your adjustments with the air screw are a bit of a red herring. If you look at the air map of the carburetor you will see that the second the accelerator butterfly opens the low speed air path is bypassed. This adjustment is designed for applications where the engine needs to idle which of course your cart does not.

To go back for a moment to the HP3004 belt, I too was a proponent of the shorter belt however I have come to realize that it is all a nonsense. It can have no effect on engine power / low end torque / hill climbing ability and all the other arguments put forward in it's favor. What it can do is place a huge load on the starter, a huge load on the clutch bearings and a huge load on the engine mounts. In my case after 25 hours of run time the belt is still so tight that I cannot push the cart without turning the engine as well. I suspect that what happens is that when the original belt wears out it wears across the width, it doesn't stretch. So it gets replaced by a shorter belt and the difference is very noticeable, however this is due not to a shorter belt but a belt of the correct width, that is to say, 1 3/16th.

Still what to do about your issue? Well my wild speculative guess is based upon you saying that there is a hesitation then it turns over. That shouts solenoid to me and you can check it by jacking up the back and shorting the two big terminals of the solenoid. If it cranks without hesitation you are on the right track. To test the "too short belt" theory you could just remove the belt and see how we start. Do not rev the engine excessively without a load as the drive clutch will not thank you. Also get it running and warmed up, now drive it in reverse and bring it to a halt. Immediately select forward and press the throttle. Does it now start and run easier? Let us know.

Good luck

Dave
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:09 PM   #5
Dmontgomery
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Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Box View Post
OK I'll give it a go (although that huge run on sentence makes it somewhat hard to follow).

I still have problems! When I go to start it there's a hesitation then it turns over

That indicates a defective solenoid which is either sticky or has high resistance contacts

when cold it starts a little after with choke pulled

that is how it is supposed to be

when it gets warmed up it will not run with the choke out

again that is how it should be.

now here is what I dont understand the engine will run but not enought Rpms to take, off the engine IS firing its not just the starter turning.

Now here comes the hypothesis (or in layman's terms, wild unsubstantiated guess). You have two problems, the first is a high resistance in the solenoid which is causing a reduced power to the starter. The second is that HP3004 belt, which is so tight it is causing the clutches to permanently engage and thus the starter is trying to drive the cart as well as start the engine.

But wait a minute I hear you say; I said

If I stop and put it in reverse it has mad power I mean anywhere you want to go.

Well that still makes sense because when you stop the engine inertia will keep it spinning until it cannot overcome the next compression stroke whence it stops. If you now try to start the engine in the same direction it is immediately faced with trying to overcome (hopefully) 140 psi compression. If, conversely, you reverse the direction you have almost 270 degrees of rotation to build up some momentum in order to overcome the compression and the first firing.

All of this ties in with

Then I try forward and sometimes it will go IF I push it to get it moving


because you are taking the load off the starter which is trying to turn the back axle.

Your adjustments with the air screw are a bit of a red herring. If you look at the air map of the carburetor you will see that the second the accelerator butterfly opens the low speed air path is bypassed. This adjustment is designed for applications where the engine needs to idle which of course your cart does not.

To go back for a moment to the HP3004 belt, I too was a proponent of the shorter belt however I have come to realize that it is all a nonsense. It can have no effect on engine power / low end torque / hill climbing ability and all the other arguments put forward in it's favor. What it can do is place a huge load on the starter, a huge load on the clutch bearings and a huge load on the engine mounts. In my case after 25 hours of run time the belt is still so tight that I cannot push the cart without turning the engine as well. I suspect that what happens is that when the original belt wears out it wears across the width, it doesn't stretch. So it gets replaced by a shorter belt and the difference is very noticeable, however this is due not to a shorter belt but a belt of the correct width, that is to say, 1 3/16th.

Still what to do about your issue? Well my wild speculative guess is based upon you saying that there is a hesitation then it turns over. That shouts solenoid to me and you can check it by jacking up the back and shorting the two big terminals of the solenoid. If it cranks without hesitation you are on the right track. To test the "too short belt" theory you could just remove the belt and see how we start. Do not rev the engine excessively without a load as the drive clutch will not thank you. Also get it running and warmed up, now drive it in reverse and bring it to a halt. Immediately select forward and press the throttle. Does it now start and run easier? Let us know.

Good luck

Dave


Sorry about the run on sentence, but im on a new phone and at work sneaking to read my replies lol . I will try to check solenoid tonight!
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:52 PM   #6
Dmontgomery
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Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

Oh and I was describing how it acts with the choke to help be more clear what it is and what its not doing.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:36 PM   #7
Dmontgomery
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Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

I tested the solenoid and I think its no good. I tried shorting it and didnt get anything. Im not electrically inclined by no means but with a meter and the key ON I get 12v on the HOT side and nothing on the other side, with gas pedal pressed. It doesnt click every time and when it does it sounds weak So I figure WTH why not go another $25 deeper and ordered a new one. I couldnt even get it to turn over today in F or R. Its 24 degrees so I guess I can work on my typing and grammer skills until the solenoid gets here lmao. Oh and practice with this d#@n phone. Thanks I will post how it goes.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:50 PM   #8
Dmontgomery
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Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

I just realized if the solenoid was bad that it would start when I shorted it! But shouldnt it read 12v when I press the pedal with key on at both terminals?
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:34 PM   #9
Dave Box
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Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

Yes with the key on and the throttle depressed you should see 12 volts across the two small terminals. If you don't then you either have supply issue or a ground issue. If you do not see 12 volts remove the meter from the terminal with the black wires and connect it to the battery negative, now try again do you see 12 volts?

That said your earlier description really does indicate problems in the high current side.

Dave
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:06 PM   #10
Dmontgomery
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Default Re: out of options.....What Now!!

So by problems with the high current side does that mean that a new solenoid should fix it? Or do I need to look elsewhere? Was gonna try to get cart going to take skeet shooting next weekend but who knows?
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