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Old 01-08-2010, 04:12 PM   #1
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Default Par Car Slow in reverse

I have a 2000 Par Car Eagle Custom based on the VIN 5EDZ-xxxxx-E0. I have no idea what the "custom" means, but that is the Z in the VIN.

It is struggling to go in reverse. This is very noticable under any load, i.e., small incline. I want to share what I have done and get some insight, possible next tests.

To me the solenoids appear to be functioning as I have 48+ volts at the B+/B- connectors of the controller in both forward and reverse.

When I look at B+/M- connectors I see something totally different. In forward I see the cart quickly come up to 48V and work as 'normal'.

When in reverse I see the voltage come up to 8V and the cart barely moves. This is with the 'gas' peddle (never thought about that term before) on the floor. So peddle on the floor I have 8V on M-/B+. If I help the cart with my foot ala Fred Flintstone, I slowly gain speed and the voltage increases.

The voltage will only increase as I gain speed. If I am trying to go up a sharp incline and cannot the voltage will stay at 8.

I will test the pot box next. Can do no harm, I am learning as I go .

Thanks for any pointers
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

The pot test is fine and after doing that I can see that should have nothing to do with the issue. What can I say, I am still in elementary school

One last test I did was jack the rear of the cart up and run it in reverse. It comes right up to 48V on the B+/M- on the motor side of the controller.

So unclear with my knowledge base if this is a controller issue or possibly something in the motor causing too much resistance under load or something else?
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbrown View Post
I have a 2000 Par Car Eagle Custom based on the VIN 5EDZ-xxxxx-E0. I have no idea what the "custom" means, but that is the Z in the VIN.

To me the solenoids appear to be functioning as I have 48+ volts at the B+/B- connectors of the controller in both forward and reverse.
This is not really true is it? I am learning as I go, so bear with me. Fun to learn, even if in front of a forum .

The only solenoid I have actually tested when seeing 48V at B-/B+ is the main one. Back to garage....

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Old 01-12-2010, 09:30 AM   #4
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

aj, the Z on the VIN you provided was coded for that vehicle being equipped with the optional rear wheel hydraulic disc brakes. I attached a different version of the color coded chart you have, showing the current flow in various modes and a trouble shooting chart for you system. Good luck.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf XP+ System (ALL).pdf (82.5 KB, 23 views)
File Type: pdf XP Plus System diagnostic.pdf (26.8 KB, 21 views)
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

Thanks, I was beginning to believe there was no love for old Par Cars .

I have done a bunch of tests to isolate the issue since my last post and will post results in a bit. Luckily it is not the motor or controller.

Thanks for the docs, will read over...
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Support View Post
aj, the Z on the VIN you provided was coded for that vehicle being equipped with the optional rear wheel hydraulic disc brakes. I attached a different version of the color coded chart you have, showing the current flow in various modes and a trouble shooting chart for you system. Good luck.
Hydraulic brakes.....hmmmm... I have never been a fan of the mechanical brakes on my 2000 Par Car.

One thing to note on the wiring diagram you sent me is that it is NOT how my cart is actually wired.

The difference is the drawing shows a wire from A2 on the controller to S2 on the motor. This is not the case. The wire is actually run from A2 on the controller to A1 on the motor essentially tyeing the controller lugs B+ and A2 together.

This is the way it has always been on my cart, not something I changed. if you look at the drawing I posted previously I have drwan it the way mine is..

Thanks again.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

A2 should NOT go to A1. B+ is already tied to A1 so you don't want to tie to A2 also. We did away with the A2 connections as well, and I attached that bulletin.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Support View Post
A2 should NOT go to A1. B+ is already tied to A1 so you don't want to tie to A2 also. We did away with the A2 connections as well, and I attached that bulletin.
OK, very interesting. Just to make sure I am clear. I should completely remove the cable attaching A2 on the controller with A1 on the motor. It is not needed and could cause damage.

Thanks
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

Correct. I honestly couldn't tell you the reasoning, but someone noticed and corrected it before my time.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Par Car Slow in reverse

If you have an interest, you will need the diagram I posted earlier to follow my rant … long winded with question at end….

Pretty sure I understand the issue. The issue appears to be in the reverse solenoid, complicated by a fix I made last year. The connecters 3 and 4 on the reverse solenoid appear to be stuck closed even when travelling in reverse. In a stock Par Car cart this would mean the cart would not go in reverse at all as the 1 and 2 connecters in the reverse solenoid would stay open. This happened to my cart last year, i.e., the cart would not go in reverse at all.

Last year, I replaced the top half of the reverse solenoid (1 and 2 connectors) with a spare Club Car solenoid. This fixed the issue and I forgot all about it. Now that I understand more about the Par Car I suspect what was happening last year was that the reverse Par Car solenoid was beginning to fail. When in reverse the solenoid would try to throw the arm to connect 1 and 2, but could not throw it far enough. It did throw it far enough so that 3 and 4 were not connected.

So last year, when cart in reverse 1 - 2 AND 3 - 4 were open and the cart would not go backwards.

Last week I suspect the reverse solenoid finally failed completely so that 3 - 4 were always connected even when the cart was in reverse. Since I had replaced the solenoid that handled 1 – 2 last year I have created a bad electrical loop. Now, when in reverse 1 – 2 AND 3 – 4 ARE CONNECTED which means electrons will be coming from both directions (not an electrical person, so that is the best I can describe it ).

In normal operation the connections with the cart travelling in reverse should be M- (controller) to S1 (motor), B+ (controller) to A1 (motor) and A2 (motor) to S2 (motor)

If I am right, when this solenoid issue occurs I am tying M- (controller) to S1 (motor) and A2 (motor) AND S2 (motor). In this case nothing happened except the cart would barely crawl backwards. There was no damage or heat or anything when I was testing reverse.

Is this the behavior one might expect, i.e., no heat, fire, etc? Did I get lucky the motor or controller did not get harmed? I am no electrical engineer, so I am unclear what could happen when wired like this.

The reason I ask is I know I can replace the 3 – 4 connector in the reverse solenoid with another Club Car solenoid (I get them for free versus $170 for a new Par Car solenoid). At that time I would remove the Par Car reverse solenoid completely. It would be replaced by two Club Car solenoids (one from last year). It will certainly work to fix the issue, but I could potentially end up with a bad electrical circuit again, e.g., 1 – 2 AND 3 – 4 closed at same time. Is it worth saving $170 or could I do more damage if they failed just right?

Hope that all makes sense, look forward to any thoughts.
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