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Old 11-18-2021, 12:43 AM   #1
E Werner
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Default Talking through an ignition problem

I'm working on an '03 ST350 Workhorse with a no spark issue; I've combed the forums here and learned quite a bit, but I think I need to have someone check over my work so far.

The cart had experienced several years of abuse and neglect when I got it. It didn't run well, and over time I replaced the carb, fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel lines, air filter, spark plugs, and adjusted the valves. Each of these things seemed to help it considerably, and I got a lot of good info from this site in the process.

A couple weeks ago, it started running poorly off and on and finally quit altogether. I found it wasn't getting spark and assumed it was the coil, replacing that made no change. I got a little more scientific and checked the signal to the coil; my test light hooked to the white coil wire didn't flash when cranking, so I assumed it was the spark module. I replaced that, but still no luck. I went back to both the old and new coils and checked them out with an ohmmeter, both checked out good. Switched over to a continuity tester and made sure that all of the wires were good, which they were. Then I went to the pulsar and checked it with the ohmmeter but found an open circuit. Also looked for AC voltage while cranking and got nothing, so I ordered a new pulsar. STILL no luck; tested the new pulsar and got good readings on both the ohms and AC voltage. Retested continuity in all the wiring, cleaned each of the connections, removed all of the ground connections and sanded them shiny and checked them for continuity. To be extra sure, I connected jumper wires from the engine block to the bracket holding the spark module and from there to the negative battery terminal. Also tried reinstalling the original spark module but have not gotten any change- not even a pop. With my test light hooked to the white coil wire I am still getting a steady light- not flashing or flickering at all.

What it looks like to me is that for some reason the spark module is still not doing its job. The new one is an overseas aftermarket, so it's possible that it is no good also. What puzzles me is the idea that the original pulsar AND the original spark module both failed at the same time. That doesn't seem likely to me.

So before I go ordering even more parts, I would like to know (1) is there anything else that I am missing that I should be checking, and (2) might this be a worthwhile opportunity to try the GM HEI conversion that I've been reading about?

I appreciate any help you folks can give; with winter coming on we need to have this cart up and running more than ever!
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Old 11-23-2021, 02:06 PM   #2
E Werner
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Well, since I didn't hear any advice to the contrary, I went and picked up a GM HEI module and wired it up as referenced elsewhere on this site. The HEI seems to have done its job, as now I have good spark on both plugs. However, the engine still will not run except for the briefest sputter when I first hit the gas. I tried swapping the pulsar wires at the HEI but that seems to make no difference. It seems like a timing issue to me, though I don't see any way that the timing could be adjusted. Any ideas where I can go from here? We need this cart back among the living pretty badly!

Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:59 AM   #3
trig123
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by E Werner View Post
Well, since I didn't hear any advice to the contrary, I went and picked up a GM HEI module and wired it up as referenced elsewhere on this site. The HEI seems to have done its job, as now I have good spark on both plugs. However, the engine still will not run except for the briefest sputter when I first hit the gas. I tried swapping the pulsar wires at the HEI but that seems to make no difference. It seems like a timing issue to me, though I don't see any way that the timing could be adjusted. Any ideas where I can go from here? We need this cart back among the living pretty badly!

Thanks!
I have not as of yet to see anyone change over to the HEI on these 2 cylinder 4-stroke engines and make them work correct.
I am not saying it can't be done but I sure wouldn't attempt it.
I would take all that off and find what is causing your engine not to fire.
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Old 04-08-2022, 12:51 PM   #4
twilliams81
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by E Werner View Post
Well, since I didn't hear any advice to the contrary, I went and picked up a GM HEI module and wired it up as referenced elsewhere on this site. The HEI seems to have done its job, as now I have good spark on both plugs. However, the engine still will not run except for the briefest sputter when I first hit the gas. I tried swapping the pulsar wires at the HEI but that seems to make no difference. It seems like a timing issue to me, though I don't see any way that the timing could be adjusted. Any ideas where I can go from here? We need this cart back among the living pretty badly!

Thanks!
Where on this site did you see how this was wired up? Can you explain how you did it?
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Old 11-24-2021, 12:47 PM   #5
E Werner
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

I really thought I had it yesterday, but the more I read, the more I think this might be another in a chain of failed HEI attempts. I decided to change the spark plugs; even though they appeared to be sparking well, they were some sort of off-brand. With the Everything Shortage going on, I couldn't get NGK's but they cross-referenced some Autolites. Put those in and she ran like a top. Not marginal, I mean great. Took it up and down the road, full throttle, part throttle, everything was great. Brought it back and changed the oil just for the heck of it, and then nothing. Flat dead again. Pulled the plugs and found them sparking with a weak orange spark.

This time around, I went through the wiring. I disconnected the factory ignition wiring and laid it aside, then ran new wires to each of the components, making sure that all of the connectors were clean and tight. I read somewhere that the generator can cause interference on the pulsar wires, so I ran them well away from it. Additionally, I ran a dedicated ground wire from the negative terminal to each of the ignition components as well as the engine block (factory grounds remain in place). No change- this thing is awfully frustrating.

"I would take all that off and find what is causing your engine not to fire." That's basically where I am at right now, but I've replaced each of the stock parts at least once, if not twice. I have two coils that test good (one original, one new), I've bought two pulsars (original and first replacement tested bad, current one tested good), and two ignition modules (one original and one new, neither made a difference). I've essentially replaced every wire in the ignition circuit, doubled the ground paths, and so on. Even leaving the HEI for the moment, what could I possibly be missing?
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:14 PM   #6
E Werner
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

HOLY COW, I'm a moron...

When I started working on this, I pulled the skid plate off the bottom. I never bothered to put it back on until I got it to run again the first time. After I changed the oil, I put it back on... and pinched the throttle cable in the process. It was only after reworking all the wiring for the 48th time that I noticed that the throttle wasn't moving at all. Apparently spark requires air and fuel in order to do any good?

I still think my spark is a bit on the weak side; I may try a pair of NGK's when their ship comes in. Either way, the cart is running well and can be put back into service, so I'm a happy camper... in addition to being a little dumb!
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:18 PM   #7
trig123
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by E Werner View Post
HOLY COW, I'm a moron...

When I started working on this, I pulled the skid plate off the bottom. I never bothered to put it back on until I got it to run again the first time. After I changed the oil, I put it back on... and pinched the throttle cable in the process. It was only after reworking all the wiring for the 48th time that I noticed that the throttle wasn't moving at all. Apparently spark requires air and fuel in order to do any good?

I still think my spark is a bit on the weak side; I may try a pair of NGK's when their ship comes in. Either way, the cart is running well and can be put back into service, so I'm a happy camper... in addition to being a little dumb!
We all make mistakes so don't worry about the mess up.
So you got the original ignition on it now ?
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Old 11-24-2021, 06:27 PM   #8
cart around
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Since you are one of the few that actually got it to work, how about listing part numbers for exactly what you bought, and maybe drawing a wiring diagram of exactly what you did.

This could help a lot of people in the future. I'm sure it's fresh in your memory right now.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:32 PM   #9
E Werner
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

At the moment, I am using an ignition module for a '76 Chevy, part number TP45SB from Napa. The plugs are Autolite 4265, though I am planning to try the correct NGK's when they become available. The coil is an overseas aftermarket stock replacement.

I mounted the module on an old aluminum heatsink from a dead computer. I removed the stock ignition module entirely, disconnected all of the factory ignition circuit wiring, and zip-tied it out of the way in case I needed it again. This consisted of the original 4-wire plug at the original ignition module, the 2 wire plug at the pulsar, and the two spade connectors at the coil.

The module has four terminals labeled W (upper-left in my picture), G (lower-left), C (upper right), and B (lower right). From W, I ran a 16g wire to the red pulsar wire. From G, I ran a 16 g wire to the black pulsar wire. From C, I ran a 14g wire to the negative coil terminal. From B, I ran a 14g wire to what I call the "switched" terminal of the solenoid. Finally, I ran a 14g wire from the "switched" solenoid terminal to the positive coil terminal.

I was concerned that the grounding might not be sufficient, so I added a 14g ground wire running from the coil bracket to the ignition module bracket to the voltage regulator bracket. There is a heavy grounding cable going directly to the battery from there. I also cleaned every factory ground connection thoroughly.

I will say that there is no performance improvement over how it ran before; if someone is looking for an upgrade that provides more power or speed, I haven't found this to be the case. I think there is room for improvement in performance- if I can figure out how to get it to give a stronger, brighter spark, it may do better. All I needed from it was that it be able to run at all, and it has given me that.
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

That will definitely help. I have an Accell module on my 2 stroke that works great. A few guys on here had a different brand that didn't work. I think the module manufacturer makes all the difference in the world.
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