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Old 12-21-2021, 03:13 PM   #11
Dawgman25
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

Uh oh, this isn't good. My cart just came in today and it is a 2022. I have the software downloaded, the XML file adjusted, and Atrain's cable. ****, a lot of studying and prep work went into this to program the cart. Sounds like I might be screwed. If anyone knows any details on the 2022 controller or how to adjust, please let us all know.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:34 PM   #12
ATrain
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

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Originally Posted by Dawgman25 View Post
Uh oh, this isn't good. My cart just came in today and it is a 2022. I have the software downloaded, the XML file adjusted, and Atrain's cable. ****, a lot of studying and prep work went into this to program the cart. Sounds like I might be screwed. If anyone knows any details on the 2022 controller or how to adjust, please let us all know.
I don't think anybody knows yet for sure? Are you able to connect to your cart with the cable or do you not yet physically have the cart?

Or can you ask your dealer if it has the Toyota controller like the 20/21 or if they changed it?
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Old 12-22-2021, 01:12 PM   #13
Dawgman25
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

I'll ask. I won't see it for a few weeks. They just got it in and I have a laundry list of upgrades they are doing - sound bar, custom seats, rearview mirror reverse cam, reverse lights, new tires, wheel spacers, etc.
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Old 12-22-2021, 01:29 PM   #14
Dawgman25
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

Just found out the controller and software is designed by Icon for 2022. I'll keep trying to find out more info.
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Old 12-22-2021, 02:04 PM   #15
ATrain
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

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Originally Posted by Dawgman25 View Post
Just found out the controller and software is designed by Icon for 2022. I'll keep trying to find out more info.
I highly doubt they had a custom controller designed for them. Most likely Navitas, Curtis, Alltrax, Toyota, etc...I don't know all the brands.

They have no need for a custom one. It's just a question of what brand. Keep us updated if you figure it out!

I'm now wondering if they switched to a controller w/a direct USB port, which needs 4 wires.
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Old 12-22-2021, 02:34 PM   #16
Dawgman25
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

I agree. Hopefully there might just be an adapter that is needed and there is no need for a CANBUS converter.

I'm getting a call from the dealership owner who works directly with ICON later today. He is out delivering a ton of carts right now as they just got them in. He will know and give me the details. If you have any other questions, let me know and I will ask.
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Old 12-22-2021, 02:58 PM   #17
BobInDaytona
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

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Originally Posted by Dawgman25 View Post
I agree. Hopefully there might just be an adapter that is needed and there is no need for a CANBUS converter.

I'm getting a call from the dealership owner who works directly with ICON later today. He is out delivering a ton of carts right now as they just got them in. He will know and give me the details. If you have any other questions, let me know and I will ask.
See if any cable diagrams are available...
I heard the cable still has a CANBUS interface, it's just that they neatened it up a bit.
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Old 12-22-2021, 03:39 PM   #18
Dawgman25
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

Ok, so confirmed it is made by ICON. Don't know the specs on it. From what I understand so far, NEOS will work on it, but a different CANBUS converter and a 3 pin plug in. The owner didn't know either until I brought it up, neither did their warranty guy. So he called ICON, had a long conversation, and is going to start programming some later today and play around with them and give me an update tomorrow. Early 22's came out with Toyota, and they are just starting to change over to the new controller now.
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Old 12-22-2021, 05:35 PM   #19
ATrain
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

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Originally Posted by Dawgman25 View Post
Ok, so confirmed it is made by ICON. Don't know the specs on it. From what I understand so far, NEOS will work on it, but a different CANBUS converter and a 3 pin plug in. The owner didn't know either until I brought it up, neither did their warranty guy. So he called ICON, had a long conversation, and is going to start programming some later today and play around with them and give me an update tomorrow. Early 22's came out with Toyota, and they are just starting to change over to the new controller now.
Some good info, but some things from your dealer don't add up. And the below isn't targeted at you, just the information you've been told.

If it still works with NEOS, which is Toyota owned, then it's the same Toyota or a Toyota-made controller.

ICON did not make their own controller in-house, nor did they get one created from scratch. They're too small of a company for this. It would be like them making their seatbelts from scratch.

The only thing they could have done is ordered a customized-controller, which I know Curtis will do. They (Toyota/Curtis/etc) essentially take their existing controller and make minor hardware changes as needed to support whatever uniqueness the vehicle (golf cart) requires. They sometimes throw a special branded sticker on it too.

As an example, I had a Curtis controller that was originally for a forklift, but it was a customized version ordered by EZ-GO for certain line of golf carts.

You mention 3-pin and Getrdone813 mentioned 4-pin. That's an important distinction that should be easy to figure out...but we need to know ASAP if possible.

You also mention a different CANBUS converter, which if true concerns me some and I'm also not convinced yet this is true. The only way this can be true is if their developers released a new version of the NEOS software (Icon Tune 7000) and redeveloped it to bypass the proprietary CANUSB device. This isn't so far fetched though, because I have multiple copies of the NEOS software that have changed over time...so it could be in active development and they may have made this decision.

The NEOS software (Icon Tune 7000) that most of us have is dependent on the specific, proprietary CANUSB device. I've decompiled the code and confirmed it, but the simplest way you can confirm at home can be seen in my screenshot below. There is a file "canusbdrv_net.dll" and if you right click it and view the properties>details, then look at the copyright you'll see "Lawicel AB 2011". Lawicel is the Swedish company that makes the CANUSB devices. So in short, the NEOS software is bundled with proprietary Lawicel (can232.com) software that it depends on.



If we assume what you've been told is true, which I still need to be convinced of at no fault of your own, then it must still be a Toyota controller and there is a newer version of the software that we need to get ahold of to program 2022+'s.

Verdict is still out on 3 vs 4 wires. IF they did modify the software to bypass the proprietary CANUSB device, it doesn't make sense they need 4 wires now. The controllers communicate via CANBUS, which is just 2-3 wires (CAN High [CAN_H #7], CAN Low[CAN_L #2], and ground [CAN_GND #3]). They MAY have added CAN_V+ #9, which provides external voltage to power the CAN device (controller), which actually makes sense so that you can program the controller without the cart being on...I'm curious if this could also be used to mitigate issues with lithium packs and sudden braking.
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Old 12-22-2021, 05:48 PM   #20
ATrain
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Default Re: 2022 ICON Motor Controller

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Originally Posted by ATrain View Post
Verdict is still out on 3 vs 4 wires. IF they did modify the software to bypass the proprietary CANUSB device, it doesn't make sense they need 4 wires now. The controllers communicate via CANBUS, which is just 2-3 wires (CAN High [CAN_H #7], CAN Low[CAN_L #2], and ground [CAN_GND #3]). They MAY have added CAN_V+ #9, which provides external voltage to power the CAN device (controller), which actually makes sense so that you can program the controller without the cart being on...I'm curious if this could also be used to mitigate issues with lithium packs and sudden braking.
To elaborate on the lithium issue (part quoted). ICONs have a motor brake, which is a little mechanical e-brake type thing that engages when you are at a full stop, you turn off the key, or you cut power to the cart/controller.

With lead acid batteries...even when the cart is as dead as can be, there's still some juice in the lead acids that will provide nominal power to the controller so that it can gracefully stop your cart as the battery gets too low to perform...it determines this by voltage level. So if your cart drops to 42v (can't remember exact lower limit), it goes into limp-mode, then eventually won't work.

If you put a lithium pack in your cart, it has a device (BMS) that monitors the lithium cells. Some circumstances can cause the BMS to panic and kill power to the entire pack suddenly. This sudden power loss to the controller causes the motor brake (supposedly, nobody has tried) to engage and if you're going fast it will either break or stop the cart and launch you like a missile. You may be able to test this by just driving in a straight line and suddenly turning your key off.

If ICON recognized this issue and determined there was no easy way around it, they may have added the 4th CANBUS pin (CAN_V+), which takes 7v-13v and is used to provide external power to the CANBUS device (controller).

This wire would allow programming the controller without the golf cart or without the key on. More importantly though, it could be a power source to ensure the controller prevents the motor brake from suddenly engaging at speed? I'd imagine they could connect a rechargeable battery...but this wouldn't require a 4th pin as that's only CANBUS.

I'm left thinking the 4th pin doesn't matter for our purposes and was only added for easy programming at the factory.
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