Alltrax XCT upgrade?!

[JaxPilot]

So Johnnie, I've been following several threads where you discuss this very topic. Does the information apply equally to a DCS cart?

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by JaxPilot

So Johnnie, I've been following several threads where you discuss this very topic. Does the information apply equally to a DCS cart?

Not equally, but in the same ballpark for raw performance.

A stock DCS motor has more torque and less speed than a stock PDS motor.

A stock PDS motor has a speed sensor while a stock DCS motor doesn't and the XCTxxxPDS doesn't do regen braking without a speed sensor, but maybe the XCTxxxDCS does. I don't know what the XCTxxxDCS does or doesn't do other than what Alltrax has posted on their website.

Of course, installing an aftermarket motor with a sped sensor, solves that issue.

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I haven't seen any threads specifically addressing a XCT in a DCS cart, so there are a lot of unanswered questions. Best bet would be call Alltrax and ask if a XCTxxxDCS has all the same features as a XCTxxxPDS.

If it doesn't, a DCX might be more cost effective. Older technology, but a great controller and with the XCT on the market now, there might be some very good deals on new DCX controllers as well as used ones.

[tankdogg60]

My exact setup is an '05 PDS 36V with the XCT400 (coming in this week, as of course my DCX burned up), and plum quick bandit motor. I have a mid-rise lift with 20" tires. My cart is used around the house and campgrounds, but alot of times for hunting. What would my best option be at this point? What should/shouldn't I upgrade to suit these situations? What setting should I set my controller to with this setup? I know we spoke of the 42V option, but I saw where you mentioned it may or may not be suitable for all situations. Also upon looking under the cover at my controller, the F1 and F2 connections were the ones that seemed to of burned up. The ends of the wires look blackened and the controller was melted looking there and smoking when it happened. May be another issue I need to address before installing the new controller? Sorry for all of the questions. Thanks again for all of the help!

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by tankdogg60

My exact setup is an '05 PDS 36V with the XCT400 (coming in this week, as of course my DCX burned up), and plum quick bandit motor. I have a mid-rise lift with 20" tires. My cart is used around the house and campgrounds, but alot of times for hunting. What would my best option be at this point? What should/shouldn't I upgrade to suit these situations? What setting should I set my controller to with this setup? I know we spoke of the 42V option, but I saw where you mentioned it may or may not be suitable for all situations. Also upon looking under the cover at my controller, the F1 and F2 connections were the ones that seemed to of burned up. The ends of the wires look blackened and the controller was melted looking there and smoking when it happened. May be another issue I need to address before installing the new controller? Sorry for all of the questions. Thanks again for all of the help!

The red highlighted statement is out of context.
Here is what I said: Bottom line: 42V is the best option for some applications, but not for all applications. Performance-wise, it is better than 36V, but not as good as 48V. It is up to the cart owner to weigh the pros and cons and make the choice.

It isn't whether 42V is suitable or not, since it is suitable for an upgrade from 36V in all applications that come to mind, but going to 48V may be better. It is up to the cart owner to decide what is best for their cart.

With an XCT and 20" tires, you can go to either 42V or 48V, or stay at 36V.

At 36V, the 20" tires are costing you about 10% of the available torque and at 42V you'll have a net torque gain of 7%, while at 48V you see about a 23% gain.

As for speed, at 36V you'll get about the same as you had with the DCX and at 42V, it'll be 17% faster and at 48V it'll be 33.3% faster.

However, at any voltage, you probably want to limit the motor to about 6,500 RPM, which is a bit over 31 MPH on 20" tires, but if they are low pressure type tires, it will be slower.

Speeds and torque will be different with the Plum Quick motor, but the percentages will be the same.

As for the burnt ends on the F1&F2 cables, the XCT uses ring terminals rather than push on, so chop of the burnt stuff and replace with ring terminals.

FWIW: I cut off the push-on terminals, stripped the insulation back an inch or so and made a loop, which I tinned with solder and clamped under the F1 & F2 bolts on the XCT controller. I'll eventually install some solder on ring terminals, but the tinned loops are working fine for now.

[tankdogg60]

Originally Posted by JohnnieB

The red highlighted statement is out of context.
Here is what I said: Bottom line: 42V is the best option for some applications, but not for all applications. Performance-wise, it is better than 36V, but not as good as 48V. It is up to the cart owner to weigh the pros and cons and make the choice.

It isn't whether 42V is suitable or not, since it is suitable for an upgrade from 36V in all applications that come to mind, but going to 48V may be better. It is up to the cart owner to decide what is best for their cart.

With an XCT and 20" tires, you can go to either 42V or 48V, or stay at 36V.

At 36V, the 20" tires are costing you about 10% of the available torque and at 42V you'll have a net torque gain of 7%, while at 48V you see about a 23% gain.

As for speed, at 36V you'll get about the same as you had with the DCX and at 42V, it'll be 17% faster and at 48V it'll be 33.3% faster.

However, at any voltage, you probably want to limit the motor to about 6,500 RPM, which is a bit over 31 MPH on 20" tires, but if they are low pressure type tires, it will be slower.

Speeds and torque will be different with the Plum Quick motor, but the percentages will be the same.

As for the burnt ends on the F1&F2 cables, the XCT uses ring terminals rather than push on, so chop of the burnt stuff and replace with ring terminals.

FWIW: I cut off the push-on terminals, stripped the insulation back an inch or so and made a loop, which I tinned with solder and clamped under the F1 & F2 bolts on the XCT controller. I'll eventually install some solder on ring terminals, but the tinned loops are working fine for now.

Ok, thanks! Yeah I guess what I meant by the 42V statement was, I am unsure of what's best for my cart. As I'm still fairly new lol. That's why I was wondering your opinion with my setup, as you are very fluent with carts. I appreciate you help very much!

[tankdogg60]

Someone told me my plum quick motor would run better at 42V than 48V.

[scottyb]

I have burnt up every PQ PDS motor I got my hands on.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by tankdogg60

Ok, thanks! Yeah I guess what I meant by the 42V statement was, I am unsure of what's best for my cart. As I'm still fairly new lol. That's why I was wondering your opinion with my setup, as you are very fluent with carts. I appreciate you help very much!

A little over four years ago, I had never seen the innards of a golf cart.

However, I've been working on electronic devices and electromechanical gadgets for nearly 60 of my 72 years, not counting all the stuff I took apart before I was 12, that never worked again. My prior knowledge dovetailed nicely with electric carts, so figuring out what makes them tick was relatively easy for me, but the only cart I've actually worked on is the one I own.

Nearly all the information I post here has been previously posted by others. Granted, I've tweaked it some and occasionally corrected a few things, but basically I just regurgitate what I've learned here.

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Is 42V best for your cart? I don't know. It was best for a stock PDS motor in a cart with stock height (18") tires and a DCX controller, because 42V will spin a stock PDS motor at about 6,500 RPM against the load imposed by 18" tires, and that is about as fast as you what to routinely spin a typical cart motor.

The taller the tire is, the more torque it takes to turn it, so 42V won't spin a stock PDS motor at 6,500 RPM with tires taller than 18", but Torque vs RPM is not linear, so I don't know what it would spin at.

When the XCT-PDS was introduced earlier this year, the danger of over-revving a stock PDS motor became a moot point since the max RPM the XCT controller will allow is user programmable. Now you can set the max RPM to 6,500 (or whatever) and not worry about over-revving the motor at 48V, even while driving down steep hills with your foot on the floor.

Originally Posted by tankdogg60

Someone told me my plum quick motor would run better at 42V than 48V.

It is my understanding that Plum Quick motors are essentially stock motors that have been rewound for additional speed and/or torque, so they will dissipate about the same amount of heat, but I might be wrong.

In general terms, motors run cooler at 48V than they do at 42V (or 36V) due to the fact motors are not pushed to the maximum performance most of the time will driving, however you can hit a motor with more Watts at 48V than you can at 42V, so the potential for getting the motor hotter does exist.

With a 400A controller, you can deliver about 16.8kW of energy at 42V to a stalled motor and about 19.2kW at 48V. Watts not converted to torque are converted to heat and the drag imposed by the cart is the same at 48V as it is at 42V, so during hard acceleration from a standstill, a motor will heat up fast at 48V than it does at 42V, but not for as long of time since it will accelerate the cart faster.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by scottyb

I have burnt up every PQ PDS motor I got my hands on.

Lead foot.

[timmyjane]

How do y'all calculate the RPMs of the motor. I have a TXT Series. 42v sure would be a lot easier but 48 would be great because I am after torque. As soon as ScottyB get the Alltrax order in I hope to have an SPM 48500 on the way. Can the controller limit the RPMs so as not to burn a motor up? I get the impression that it can but want to make sure.