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Old 10-17-2021, 06:24 AM   #1
Denzone
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Default Lithium upgrade information continued

As I continue my education with drop-in lithium battery packs, I was introduced to something I hadn't thought about yet. While I have looked at all the big brands online, (Allied, Big Battery, EcoBattery, Dakota, ExtremeTeam, RoyPow) one of the local dealers here mentioned Patriot Power Products. I looked them over also and they looked nice. So I visited the said dealer and they asked what controller I had. I mentioned that I have an Alltrax SR48600. He said that the kit they would sell me would kill out when I was to floor the cart. Said that the controller is too high of an amp rating. He said that anything over 400 amps would cause issues. Now, I hadn't thought about that, but the reason I got that high amp controller is that I have an older series cart that was converted to a 6 passenger and it is lifted with large tires. I haven't swapped out the motor (yet) so still running the stock motor. So, my question is has anyone experienced that happening after putting in a kit?

I did contact the website at Patriot Power, and the person (said he was the owner) said that with the stock motor it should be okay. I do plan to try to research the other companies by contacting them, just wanted to see if others had heard of it.

Thanks for your information.
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Old 10-17-2021, 07:55 AM   #2
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

That makes zero sense to me.

There is (must be) a built in BMS on the PPP (Patriot Power Products) that shuts down when the pack voltage, or any individual cell voltage drops below a set voltage.

I just installed a new Alltrax SR 48500 (just last month) and know how easy it is to set the parameters of the controller.

You can set the controller to a lower maximum power draw than what the motor is demanding thus limiting the pack (and individual cell) volt drop when the power demand is wanted\needed.

You didn't mention what the amp\hr rating the battery pack has, but that may be helpful to know more about the "why" it would shut down the battery power.
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Old 10-17-2021, 03:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

Like Dave said, the controller you have can be adjusted to limit amp draw when you floor it. I have checked mine many time just to see what it does draw.

With my throttle response set at 35%, I still get to top speed in about 5 or 6 seconds. That is more than enough acceleration for me. The most amp hours draw from a dead stop with a floored pedal has been in the high 90's. This is on level pavement. Cruising amps are around 10 to 15 at 15 mph cruising speed. When I get in traffic and hold it to 24 mph, my amp draw is in the 40 to 50 amp range.

Hills and turf may make the amp draw higher, but the chances of you having a problem with your controller are very small. Any battery distributor will want to err on the side of conservative numbers to avoid selling something that may damage your controller or motor.

By the way, it appears Patriot Power Source only sells 12 volt batteries which you connect in series to get 48 volts. This is NOT the way you want to power your cart. Go with one 48 volt battery of the Ah rating you need. This provides one BMS to control the cells of the pack. The only recommended alternative is multiple 48 volt batteries in parallel but this is not the best choice.
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Old 10-17-2021, 07:48 PM   #4
cmysstailights
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

I have a plumb quick bandit motor. Taller tires alltrax 500amp controller. On a huge hill i have seen most 300 amps. I doubt you will ever see 400 amps on the street

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Old 10-18-2021, 07:05 AM   #5
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

All good comments! You're gonna need to set the controller and the PP drop ins all (3/12v or 4/12v) are gonna have a BMS that will regulate at 100AH Continuous/200AH Pulse 3 to 5 mins/300AH for 3 to 5 seconds. So both batteries and controller need to be reset.

You or the dealer can do that for you.
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Old 10-18-2021, 08:28 AM   #6
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmysstailights View Post
I have a plumb quick bandit motor. Taller tires alltrax 500amp controller. On a huge hill i have seen most 300 amps. I doubt you will ever see 400 amps on the street
I have pretty much the same setup. The max on a very steep hill on mine is just over 300amps....the mirror image of what cmysstailights has on his.

And I agree...I doubt you will ever have a need for 400amps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernFlyed View Post
All good comments! You're gonna need to set the controller and the PP drop ins all (3/12v or 4/12v) are gonna have a BMS that will regulate at 100AH Continuous/200AH Pulse 3 to 5 mins/300AH for 3 to 5 seconds. So both batteries and controller need to be reset.

You or the dealer can do that for you.
If you have a laptop with Windows 10, changing the settings is easier than changing a newborn's diaper!!
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Old 10-18-2021, 09:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post
If you have a laptop with Windows 10, changing the settings is easier than changing a newborn's diaper!!
Before I got my laptop, I used a 30' long printer cable (A-male to B-male) connected to my PC to set up and change my Alltrax settings.

And you're absolutely right about the diaper thing!
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Old 10-18-2021, 02:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

I have got into the Alltrax program and seen the setting, just hadn't played with them a lot yet. Thanks for the information.
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:04 AM   #9
rayres74
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom47 View Post
Like Dave said, the controller you have can be adjusted to limit amp draw when you floor it. I have checked mine many time just to see what it does draw.

With my throttle response set at 35%, I still get to top speed in about 5 or 6 seconds. That is more than enough acceleration for me. The most amp hours draw from a dead stop with a floored pedal has been in the high 90's. This is on level pavement. Cruising amps are around 10 to 15 at 15 mph cruising speed. When I get in traffic and hold it to 24 mph, my amp draw is in the 40 to 50 amp range.

Hills and turf may make the amp draw higher, but the chances of you having a problem with your controller are very small. Any battery distributor will want to err on the side of conservative numbers to avoid selling something that may damage your controller or motor.

By the way, it appears Patriot Power Source only sells 12 volt batteries which you connect in series to get 48 volts. This is NOT the way you want to power your cart. Go with one 48 volt battery of the Ah rating you need. This provides one BMS to control the cells of the pack. The only recommended alternative is multiple 48 volt batteries in parallel but this is not the best choice.
Why would 48 volt batteries in parallel not be best choice? Seems in that configuration you can actually get better amp draw from multiple batteries instead of just 1 pack such as the roypow. If you put 2 big battery.com batteries and you can have a Max 252 amp draw. If you put 4 it doubles to 504 which means someone who has a 500 amp controller can now set it to 500 max. 1 box roypow you are limited to the 250 max.
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Old 10-20-2021, 10:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: Lithium upgrade information continued

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayres74 View Post
Why would 48 volt batteries in parallel not be best choice? Seems in that configuration you can actually get better amp draw from multiple batteries instead of just 1 pack such as the roypow. If you put 2 big battery.com batteries and you can have a Max 252 amp draw. If you put 4 it doubles to 504 which means someone who has a 500 amp controller can now set it to 500 max. 1 box roypow you are limited to the 250 max.

Just putting two Lithium batteries in parallel may not be the best solution as you end up with two separate BMS and potentially those two separate packs could not be balanced with each other. (Engineer's will correct me if I'm wrong on that) The plus I see...if I'm looking at it right...on the Big Battery is if you jump to the next amp\hr, it appears there is only one BMS for the entire pack.

Having the capacity to draw 504 amps doesn't really do much for cart performance as the motor is designed to draw only so many amps. My D&D Torque motor will draw just a tad over 300 amps when coming up a steep hill. It doesn't matter if my pack can "give" 500 amps....that will never happen. In fact, I set my controller to let the motor "have" no more than 250amps. I have no noticeable decrease in performance, and that provides a little more "amps left over" so I can travel more distance.

It's like saying you put a ten gallon gas tank on your cart that use to have a 5 gallon tank. It's not going to increase the performance, but it will increase the distance you can travel. The gas engine can only demand so much fuel at any given time.
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