need help with my lift kit please!

[truckerdude]

I just got my Jakes lift kit installed on my G2. The install went fine until I got to the letting the cart down off the jack stands. The front tires will not lay flat on the ground, they are tucked under to the point that they are on the sidewall. I removed the shocks and now it will sit as it should, except there is no support from the shocks. The shocks appear to be the stock ones, and I put them in the third hole like the directions said. So, what is going on with this ?

[cgtech]

You need to roll it back & fourth to allow the suspension to settle. You will need to do this several times to get your "toe" adjustments right. Will need to drive it some too, with one and two passengers on it to get the "sweet spot". What you are experiencing is totally normal with a "single a-arm suspension". It will take time to dial it in. Stock worn-out shocks wont make it any easier.

[truckerdude]

I tried the rolling back and forth. No results with that. The tires are about 12" apart tilted inward. Not doubting what you said, but it seems like it will be hard for the tires to right themselves since they are off road tread and sorta hard to slide on the floor.

[Mike Mac]

Here is how I do front end alignment.

[truckerdude]

I'm sorry I can't explain this better, but it's really not the toe in that is the issue, at least I don't think it is. The wheels are almost laying on the floor like they are folded underneath the cart.When I removed the shocks it went back to the tires being as they should.The a-arms won't flatten out. I would post a picture but I

[truckerdude]

Don't know what happened what I was saying is I would post a pic but I don't know how.

[slonomo]

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/test-...ing-101-a.html

[slonomo]

If this is the dreaded "camber issue", I can help explain.

In a swing arm design, aka single a arm design, the a arm travels in an arc. Since the spindle is fixed and does not use ball joints, there is not movement at the king pins. This means when the suspension reaches it's limits, you will always see a high degree of camber change. The wheels will look like this \ / or / \ . This is the problem with the single a arm/swing arm suspension.

With a new kit, you have to make sure the shocks are:
a.) the correct ones and b.) in good working order.

If your shocks have been replaced and are too tall you will get \ /

If your shocks are worn out or too short you will get / \

With a single a arm setup you also get tire "scrub" and "bump steer". I encourage you to google both and read up on it.

Tire scrub comes into play because the tire naturally wants to move laterally/side to side during it's normal operation. This causes the tire to "scrub" or rub the surface of the ground. Sometimes a soft rubber tire and a grippy concrete floor make the tire resistant to that lateral movement. This can cause the suspension to "not compress" and will stay in the \ / position. Conversely, the opposite is also true. If the suspension compresses too much, sometimes the tires scrub enough to not allow the suspension to rebound and will stay in the / \ position.

Toe in/ Toe out will also cause problems with the suspension if not dialed in properly. On a single a arm setup, the toe needs to be as close to zero as possible, and just a hair on the toe in side, so maybe 1/8" toe in. What happens with this suspension style is the tires want to travel in a straight line. If the cart is toed in too far, when it rolls forward the suspension will want to extend, or get higher. The reason is the tires are trying to follow that straight line and if they are angled inward, the straight line points inward and they want to move closer together. This extends the suspension. Again, the opposite is also true. When going backwards the tires want to move farther apart, which will make the suspension compress. Tire scrub is very tricky, and is the main reason automobiles don't use this design anymore.

Bump steer....that's a whole other discussion. Basically if your tie rods are not level with the control arms/a arms, when the suspension flexes you will get a change in toe angle. This makes the vehicle steer in the direction of the toe angle. So when you hit a bump, the vehicle steers. Bump steer. With a single a arm/swing arm front suspension, there is no remedy for the bump steer, there will always be bump steer. You can, however, make it worse....much worse. If you install a lift kit and you don't get the tie rods length and angle correct, you will have lots of bump steer and at speeds greater than 15 mph you will have increasingly dangerous steering results. Very dangerous when going fast, especially on paved surfaces. Another reason that single a arm/single control arm/ swingarm front suspensions are not used by automakers anymore. Many crashes were attributed to this. Think VW Beetle, Corvair.

[truckerdude]

Thanks Slonomo for the info. I agree that pics are needed. I will see if my daughter can help me with this. I have what you described \ / condition. The shocks are the ones that were on the cart with the 4" lift. They seemed to work fine and appear to be the correct ones. I am new to this cart scene, I assumed the Jakes kit was a simple bolt on kit. Thanks again for the help

[CAMPERCART2013]

Try a different hole if your tires are\ / then go one hole lower and see how it looks