600amp Navitas on 36v PDS Speed?

[Brent_Blacke]

Looking to install a 600amp Navitas (along with 2ga cables and H/D solenoid) on my currently stock 2005 EZGO. Future steps include upgraded or replacement motor, 48v battery pack, 21-24" tires. I'm 100% on road with some rolling hills and max family load of 350#.

1) What speeds should I expect?
2) What will be the next limiting factor and/or what will fail?
3) Was thinking of the PQ bandit upgrade but open to other options

Any other thoughts/feedback is appreciated too!!

[Imapled]

Originally Posted by Brent_Blacke

Looking to install a 600amp Navitas (along with 2ga cables and H/D solenoid) on my currently stock 2005 EZGO. Future steps include upgraded or replacement motor, 48v battery pack, 21-24" tires. I'm 100% on road with some rolling hills and max family load of 350#.

1) What speeds should I expect?
2) What will be the next limiting factor and/or what will fail?
3) Was thinking of the PQ bandit upgrade but open to other options

Any other thoughts/feedback is appreciated too!!

Things to consider:

Future steps include upgraded or replacement motor, 48v battery pack, 21-24" tires. I'm 100% on road with some rolling hills and max family load of 350#.

Your current setup is a DC setup but, you didn't mention if your cart is PDS (Shunt) or Series based motor setup. An important detail.

I am going to suggest you consider a Navitas TAC2 traction inverter (AC) and Navitas 5kW AC induction motor rather than sticking with a DC shunt/series setup.

Why?

1. You are looking to move to 48v.
2. You are looking to increase your tire size.
3. You are on roads with rolling hills.

The cost difference between a Navitas TAC2 and AC Induction motor is not very far off the cost of all the upgrades you will need to get a DC Navitas TSX3.0 and new motor that can perform at the same capabilities and efficient as the Navitas AC Induction offering.

Many people do the step-up DC conversion by putting in a new controller on their 36V setup, upgrade batteries, then upgrade the motor, etc... Then they just turn around and sell their controller and motor to fund their upgrade to the Navitas AC setup which requires a new controller and motor.

I would recommend you seriously consider just skipping the steps and going straight to the Navitas AC setup.

As for a DC setup... I would put in a D&D motor that is built to specification over a modified DC motor.

Speed expectations on 36VDC nominal with a TSX3.0 600a if your motor is Series will NOT increase in speed. You will get more torque but, speed won't come until you move to 48v. You shouldn't expect anything wild in the speed zone. Maybe 20-23MPH @ 48VDC nominal.

On a Shunt wound motor @ 36VDC nominal again, you will see maybe 21mph and more torque. At 48VDC nominal you should expect 21-25mph on a stock motor with more torque.

I can't speak to the Bandit motor but, with a D&D motor you can get to about 28mph on a DC setup all things (rolling resistance, brake drag, etc...)

On a TAC2 with 5kW induction motor at 48VDC nominal you can expect out of the box 35mph. At 72VDC nominal you can expect 40mph out of the setup. At either voltage you can expect better hill performance than "most" DC setups.

To get to 35mph on a DC setup you need to spend some good coin on it. I have a DC setup that can pull it off but, its got a very odd AMD massive motor, 72VDC and custom programmed controller. It also is not nearly as efficient as my various AC setups (SME and Navitas) and it cost me more than my SME and Navitas setups.

[Brent_Blacke]

Awesome, thank you for your response, very helpful and you're spot on with your assumptions:

1) yes I have a PDS/shunt system
2) yes long term plan is to get to a 48V/AC drive

I would love to go the full Monty right now, but here are my reasons:
1) already into the cart for $3500
2) included brand new 36V batteries (any ideas how to sell/recoup $?)
3) Total net DC upgrade cost $600 (DC controller $500 ($700-$200 when sold) + PQ Bandit ($300-$200 when sold)) vs $3K for AC controller/motor $1800 + $1200 48V batteries. I know i'm comparing apples (AC)and oranges (DC), but if I had/wanted to spend $6500 right now, ive seen well equipped (navitas) RXVs listed for that... besides i like not getting divorced, ha!

Based on all this i'm guessing there is no AC system that can run on 36v?

Originally Posted by Imapled

Things to consider:



Your current setup is a DC setup but, you didn't mention if your cart is PDS (Shunt) or Series based motor setup. An important detail.

I am going to suggest you consider a Navitas TAC2 traction inverter (AC) and Navitas 5kW AC induction motor rather than sticking with a DC shunt/series setup.

Why?

1. You are looking to move to 48v.
2. You are looking to increase your tire size.
3. You are on roads with rolling hills.

The cost difference between a Navitas TAC2 and AC Induction motor is not very far off the cost of all the upgrades you will need to get a DC Navitas TSX3.0 and new motor that can perform at the same capabilities and efficient as the Navitas AC Induction offering.

Many people do the step-up DC conversion by putting in a new controller on their 36V setup, upgrade batteries, then upgrade the motor, etc... Then they just turn around and sell their controller and motor to fund their upgrade to the Navitas AC setup which requires a new controller and motor.

I would recommend you seriously consider just skipping the steps and going straight to the Navitas AC setup.

As for a DC setup... I would put in a D&D motor that is built to specification over a modified DC motor.

Speed expectations on 36VDC nominal with a TSX3.0 600a if your motor is Series will NOT increase in speed. You will get more torque but, speed won't come until you move to 48v. You shouldn't expect anything wild in the speed zone. Maybe 20-23MPH @ 48VDC nominal.

On a Shunt wound motor @ 36VDC nominal again, you will see maybe 21mph and more torque. At 48VDC nominal you should expect 21-25mph on a stock motor with more torque.

I can't speak to the Bandit motor but, with a D&D motor you can get to about 28mph on a DC setup all things (rolling resistance, brake drag, etc...)

On a TAC2 with 5kW induction motor at 48VDC nominal you can expect out of the box 35mph. At 72VDC nominal you can expect 40mph out of the setup. At either voltage you can expect better hill performance than "most" DC setups.

To get to 35mph on a DC setup you need to spend some good coin on it. I have a DC setup that can pull it off but, its got a very odd AMD massive motor, 72VDC and custom programmed controller. It also is not nearly as efficient as my various AC setups (SME and Navitas) and it cost me more than my SME and Navitas setups.

[Imapled]

Originally Posted by Brent_Blacke

Based on all this i'm guessing there is no AC system that can run on 36v?

Nope. Not that are easy drop-in AC setups and not worth even attempting to be frank @ 36VDC nominal.

HPEVS and Navitas are the only "drop-in" packages for AC on a TXT and the HPEVS is super duper high end stuff that comes at a premium price. I can do SME setups but, its super duper ultra custom stuff that is like 0.1% of the market kind of stuff.

Check out Golf Carts Modified LLC for the various TXT packages. Email them or contact them on Facebook directly as they have very very very good prices on the total TXT conversion packages. No one else offers a complete TXT kit with TXT48 harness, contactor, TAC2, motor, wires, etc...

[Capt. Lenny]

I have to agree with IMAPLED. I started out with the 36 volt DC route getting the Bandit motor upgrade with 2 GA cables first then added the 500 amp Alltrax controller (top speed was 21 mph) then new 48 volt pack then 400 amp solenoid then a reversing contactor and only got to 27-28 mph on stock height tires. Gutted all the above items and just put in the Navitas 5K 600amp kit and have plenty of torque and top speed of 31 mph. There might be a couple more mph available with a little additional tuning but it's all good for now. All speeds are solo with a windshield and back seat. If I went to 215/50-12 rear tires which are about 2" taller at 20.5" than what I have, I could pick up 3 mph more. Go to 23's and you'll get more speed but you'll need a lift. I personally don't want a lift while running higher speeds.

That being said I came out pretty well selling all the DC parts and they sold pretty quick considering the current retail situation. All in to upgrade to the Navitas, only about $600 difference not including batteries.

If your 36 volt battery pack is still in reasonably good condition it still has a resale value. I sold my 6 year old Trojan pack for $150 to a guy that didn't have $900 for a new pack and they're still running today. I also bought a new looking 48 volt DPI battery charger on Ebay for $100 and sold my old 36 volt Lester for $150 plus shipping. If you shop around you can find some good deals and there are quite a few places to look. There is a market for used parts because this is just a hobby for a large number of people.

I wish I had made the move sooner but I was a newbie in the golf cart world. Navitas is like a supercharger for your cart! Every time I made a little speed or torque gain I was happy but this is addicting! I enjoy working on this because the technology is easier than working on these newer cars and trucks.

[Brent_Blacke]

Thanks again Guys! Again, it all makes perfect sense and I'd like to think I'll get to an AC setup someday, but just don't have the $3-4K needed to do it today... but that being said, even if I did, would you recommend putting that into a 16yo PDS vs sell it and buying a newer/upgraded RXV for the same total cost?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...39113629768573

[Capt. Lenny]

First off, I think you could be all in for about $2500 if you take your time and shop around including batteries. Any parts that are functional are sellable to someone in need of good stock parts which will reduce your final cost. After all, isn't that what auto junk yards are all about?

[Imapled]

Originally Posted by Brent_Blacke

Thanks again Guys! Again, it all makes perfect sense and I'd like to think I'll get to an AC setup someday, but just don't have the $3-4K needed to do it today... but that being said, even if I did, would you recommend putting that into a 16yo PDS vs sell it and buying a newer/upgraded RXV for the same total cost?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...39113629768573

I would rather have a 5kW Navitas AC inductive motor and Navitas 600a traction inverter in a TXT over a 3.3kW RXV setup anyday.

Why?

1. You have mechanical brakes on a TXT.

2. If you want limited slip you can get part no. 614756 and put it on the TXT axle. (I do it all the time.)

RXV is a nice cart but, its a bit of a monster to debug and fix at times. Just look at the frequency of questions regarding failed motor brakes on this site and others.

[Brent_Blacke]

You guys are the best!! loving BGW!!!

[bronsonj]

I agree with Imapled. I've abused my TXT and there are many aftermarket parts for whatever I want. The RXV is a very sensitive, rolling computer.

I love the mechanical brakes on my TXT and I set my regen so I almost never need the brakes but I have them.

*Even if* the RXV had more power than the Navitas in a TXT, I'd still go with the TXT. Just my $0.02