RXV Auto-Brake Problem III

[cartboy]

We are exactly at the point (the third year) when batteries begin dropping like flies, and they have been.

This time around we have a system to deal with it and the manufacturer is responding promptly. When a cart dies on the course, I/we take voltage readings. 99.99999% of the time there is at least one bad battery, a reading below 8 volts. When the cart manufacturer does their discharge test, it has confirmed it every time.

We have replaced a lot of batteries already this year, but have not had a cart die on the course for quite some time.

Monday, four days ago, we installed GPS units, with the assurance from the GPS company and the cart manufacturer that they would not affect our batteries, or the battery warranties.

Yesterday a cart died after 15 holes.

[oldnavycdr]

Thank you, Cartboy! I really commend you for this meticulous documentation of your fleet experience with the RXV. I wish I'd seen it before I purchased my '13 RXV but it was not until I began experiencing some bugs in my cart that I ran across your saga. Which brings me to my point:

There is so little information relative to the overall, documented reliability and long term experience with the various manufacturers. There are these forums where cart owners seek answers to issues they come across but you have to read everything to get a picture of design issues, maintenance difficulties, component failure rates, etc. I tried to research this kind of information off the internet while trying to decide between one OEM and another. I would have thought that fleet managers would have posted this kind of information to share with other fleet managers but I just couldn't find it. There seems to be no "consumer reports review" on the various OEM's that I could find.

I recognize that individual consumers/owners are certainly not the sales target for the big boys. The fleets pay the rent to be sure. Only a relative few purchase new with the vast majority buying fleet trade in's which get refurbed in some manner or another. And as for fleet managers I suspect lease terms are the primary driver and probably reliability/cost effectiveness is in the calculus but may not be primary.

I further suspect that fleet managers are not inclined to upset the apple cart by publicly complaining about an OEM design or reliability lest they get reduced support. After all, as Cartboy makes clear it is all about "today" and how many working carts do I have to support the Pro & GM. To me, this is backwards. If fleets want more reliable products, proper designs rather than gimmicks I would think publishing fleet experience, component failures, poor factory support, etc would give them leverage and drive the industry to a better product through experience and competition. If this were the case I would think that we, the consumers (of either the occasional brand new cart or the after market refurb) would also be the beneficiary. Sure, you can get a view from your cart repair guy but most are associated with one OEM or another and have their bias. Seems to me that fleet data from carts that are driven hard and stressed would be the best source. I just couldn't find any until I read this entire thread.

Again, thanks Cartboy!

[cartboy]

Thanks. Posting a little bit each time it happens, really adds up.

Anyone who has followed this diatribe knows that the response we are getting in support of our 2012's is vastly superior than what we got for our 2008's. Of course, any support would have been better.

Possible reasons for the better support:

1. The first go-around demonstrated how costly it is for the manufacturer to stonewall problems.

2. With this many years of experience with the RXV, the manufacturer and techs know the problems are real.

3. The addition of a major golf course management company, with fleet accounts, in 2011.

4. We have refined the process that we use to determine bad batteries, and although it is not an accepted test used by the manufacturer, it has proven to be 100% accurate, so, after two years of doing it that way, the tech just asks, "How many batteries do I need to bring?"

But, yes, I came here years ago looking for help with our problems, hoping to find someone who had dealt with them, too, and I became that person.

We had the hardest day of the year yesterday, a double shotgun using all the carts, with no recharging time. A few of them limped back in and I took battery readings until too much confusion put an end to that. One bad battery was 5.8 volts.

In 2011, we could not have done that, and as I remember back, we rented enough carts to supplement the ones that were working at that time, which was only about 1/2 the cart barn.

[oldnavycdr]

My point is that fleet owners should flip this back on the manufacturers and publically rate their experiences with their products and not just ho out for the best lease deal. It wouldn't have taken all this time for E-Z-Go to step up to their issues if these problems had been widely circulated and shared amongst the fleet managers. That said you exposed an important issue with the single point battery watering systems. I had a BWS system on my old Yamaha. Very convenient but I, too noticed or suspected that some of the floats might be sticking. I made a practice of driving the cart briefly after charge and before use -- bounce it a bit on some terrain and then connect the fill hose. This loosened any stuck floats and I got full fills. I also checked the cells every now and again to make sure. I didn't get any overfills from that system that I know of and got 6 years + out of the Trojans. My '13 RXV came with US Batteries but without the fill system. My dealer must have read this tread as he mentioned many of the issues you encountered and suggested that I not add one. Because I would take the time and trouble to make sure it is functioning properly I considered one for the RXV UNTIL I read about the battery explosions. I'll just hop the cells with a bottle and do the appropriate clean up. Doesn't take that long anyway. It is a shame, though. I liked the quick connect, quick fill convenience and the very clean battery tops but I'd rather not burn my house down.

Another thing I picked up was the occasional equalizer charge on the US Batteries given the charging profile of the RXV charger. Good to know. I'll do that monthly.

And lastly, it has to be hard to be put in the middle between the battery guys and the cart guys with each pointing fingers. To me, this is total BS. Low tire pressure??? What a joke! Now, I sympathize with them somewhat because they have been forced to reduce the amount of lead in their products...like federal regulators understand chem/physics! Thank you Mr. & Mrs. Government. You sure know what you are doing.

If you get a chance to talk to your E-Z-Go tech ask him what improvements they made (if any) in their '13's over the '12's. I'd like to know what issues to look out for.

[phnguyk]

I beat the crap out of my lifted offroad rxv, still on 2010 12v's. All this reading and to me its the way your batteries are maintained or charged. Autofill problem, right? So why rely on them? A good tech would know to check the batteries after using the autofill. Whats the proof of it being the rxv? Bad controller? NO. Bad motor? No. Charger? No. And this thread started when? And you're still using rxv's. Something isn't right and it looks to me it's not the rxv. "Sign holders", "bumpers", "rivets"? That's problems related to being a golf course.

[cartboy]

Originally Posted by phnguyk

I beat the crap out of my lifted offroad rxv, still on 2010 12v's. All this reading and to me its the way your batteries are maintained or charged. Autofill problem, right? So why rely on them? A good tech would know to check the batteries after using the autofill. Whats the proof of it being the rxv? Bad controller? NO. Bad motor? No. Charger? No. And this thread started when? And you're still using rxv's. Something isn't right and it looks to me it's not the rxv. "Sign holders", "bumpers", "rivets"? That's problems related to being a golf course.

Glad you like yours.

No one that matters . . . the cart manufacturer, the battery company, or the auto-fill company . . . dispute our problems, and are working to resolve them.

[stretchman]

Originally Posted by phnguyk

I beat the crap out of my lifted offroad rxv, still on 2010 12v's. All this reading and to me its the way your batteries are maintained or charged. Autofill problem, right? So why rely on them? A good tech would know to check the batteries after using the autofill. Whats the proof of it being the rxv? Bad controller? NO. Bad motor? No. Charger? No. And this thread started when? And you're still using rxv's. Something isn't right and it looks to me it's not the rxv. "Sign holders", "bumpers", "rivets"? That's problems related to being a golf course.

This thread I'm sure has discouraged way to many rxv model potential sales to allot of small business trying to sell there used inventory. There are far more of these carts doing just fine out there. And the performance you would try to match with aftermarket controllers, motors ect on say a txt model, would cost in the thousands to compare. I think it is (this thread) doing more damage that good at this point. Just my 2 cents

[yurtle]

I think it's good to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly. Most folks realize people usually don't go out of their way to document a lack of problems. That's true for nearly any product, not just golf carts. It's also why I take a lot of negative comments with a grain of sand, especially on computer parts, where it may be a case of user error. It does sound like they have/had some problems. Feedback from users can help them improve, if they admit it exists.

[yurtle]

One final comment. I don't know what kind of warranty these come with, but if they come with a 5 year warranty, the industry will correct design problems. If it's just a 1 year warranty, often the end user gets stuck with paying to correct design flaws, and there's no pressure on the manufacturer to correct known problems other than word of mouth.

[cartboy]

We had a five-year lease on the 2008 fleet, and they redid it with 2012s.

No one involved expects the lease to go all five years.
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As far as this thread doing more harm than good, I think that's an overestimation of how this forum, or any forum, affects the real world.

But, for balance, anyone else running a fleet of these at their course, with no problems, should feel free to add their comments.
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Not that it applies to anything I've been reporting, here's warranty information:

http://www.ezgo.com/MungoBlobs/863/8...20Warranty.pdf

For the clicking-impaired, most items are 4 years, some are 3 and some are 2/

Here's the one for the batteries: DEEP CYCLE BATTERY – RXV ELECTRIC MODELS: Earlier of 4 years or 25,000 amp hours*

On both the 2008s and 2012s, ours have had mass failures, fleetwide, starting at around 15000 AH. We're around that now with the 2012s. Our carts now have a mix of 2012s, 2013s and 2014s, which you can tell by the stamp on the flat ring in the terminal area.

At the point where they had replaced 117 batteries on our 2008s, I sensed we were approaching 25000 AH, and I warned the GM. That's when the lease got redone, so we didn't have to face that possibility.
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