won't keep running without choking

49ford · 10-13-2019, 06:04 AM

I offered to fix a neighbors 96 gas DS. It hadn't run for quite a while and they had it in a shed for some time. And here's the list of what I did, and can't remember the precise order.
New battery
Repaired wires to ign switch
Replace Ford solenoid with cart solenoid, now it clicks and turns motor well
Clean gas tank, new gas, new gas filter
Check compression, pumps up to 180
Check spark, blue
New spark plug, .030
Cleaned carb, twice, will start but won't keep running without choking
New carb, same result
Fuel pump produces weak stream of fuel
Replace pump vacuum hose with good clamps
Change oil, was too full and needed it anyway
Check valves, adjusted to .006 inch at tdc , didn't have a .005
Checked spark with timing lite, shuts off at a certain rpm, unhook brown wire, now will rev higher before needing choked to keep running
Pulling spark plug after trying to get running, it is black from the choking
Also, unhooked muffler, and no change, had thought muffler clogged, not
Sprayed brake clean around carb base when turning motor over looking for intake leak, didn't rev up.
I might as well put a fuel pump on it, as I really don't know how much flow this engine needs. I am out of ideas.

chrisr32 · 10-13-2019, 08:13 AM

If it runs only with the choke seems to indicate lean condition but you replaced and cleaned the carb. The fuel pump will insure the bowl is always full of fuel but at idle you would think the "Fuel pump produces weak stream of fuel" would be enough yet, it may not be enough. If you gravity feed the carb with a auxiliary/test fuel tank and it works it may very well be the fuel pump.

CP241 · 10-13-2019, 08:23 AM

Is the airbox completely installed and sealed around the lid? That airbox lid can be a real PITA to get sealed, because of the way the 2 clips on the back side are so close to the body. If the lid isnt sealed its gonna run like dookie and you'll need choke.

Same if the hose between airbox and carb is torn. More common in lifted carts but if it's been in a shed for years mice may be an issue...

I'd also try manually getting a little squirt bottle and a piece of fuel hose and feeding the carb fuel just to rule out fuel supply. Though, once the bowl is full it should run for a couple minutes off what's in the bowl. Perhaps its clean but the float is set wrong, or installed upside down? (Dont mean to insult, but I've done it myself, get in a hurry start slapping stuff together and find you're getting no gas... oops lol)

A small stream.of fuel is normal. The fuel pump just has to keep the bowl full. 1-2psi max

49ford · 10-13-2019, 08:33 AM

Thanks for ideas. I'll rig up something today and see how it goes, and print results.

49ford · 10-13-2019, 12:48 PM

Ok, put auxillary tank on, starts and still dies unless you choke it. And,, I haven't ever had the air filter box hooked up with all these tests. Just straight off the carb horn. Took new carb apart, found metal casting slivers. Also float is set same for closing needle and 1/16 higher on float drop, than stock carb. It doesn't look like those are easily adjustable either.

chrisr32 · 10-13-2019, 01:00 PM

Was the air box hooked before you started working on it? If it was, you may try hooking up the air box and see how it does.

CP241 · 10-13-2019, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisr32

Was the air box hooked before you started working on it? If it was, you may try hooking up the air box and see how it does.

This motor is going to run insanely lean, if you can even get it to run at all if the airbox is disconnected. The airbox is necessary for it to run.

I assumed by choking it you were pressing the button.

49ford · 10-13-2019, 06:09 PM

hooked up filter box and hose,, and then found another problem. The battery they brought me is too tall for the filter box to fit in behind the choke cap. The motor actually ran better, though I restricted the inlet a small amount. Only way to know for sure is to put the right battery in it and hook up to choke cap. I never encountered a gas motor that had to be so choked down to run properly. Most all gas motors need free flowing air to the carb to run. Oh well.

chrisr32 · 10-13-2019, 07:43 PM

When the factory sets the main jet it is with all the hoses and emissions in mind so if you bypass the air cleaner it is now less restricted and would need to be re-jetted or just use the factory equipment. Let us know how it runs once you replace the battery and get everything put back together.

49ford · 10-20-2019, 11:12 AM

I have the right battery in place now. The air box is installed and sealed up pretty well. The cart will start and runs well after it has a chance to warm up good. It did not want to start yesterday morning. Temp was around 50F. I found the starter functions in neutral so today I started it in neutral and warmed it up, then it did pretty good. When I first tried to start it yesterday, in reverse, it coughed and tried to start several times, then quit and would not start, choked or not. Now even if it is warmed up you must first choke it to start. Is this even close to normal for these DS gas models?

10-13-2019, 06:04 AM	#1
49ford Gone Wild Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: SW MO Posts: 265	won't keep running without choking I offered to fix a neighbors 96 gas DS. It hadn't run for quite a while and they had it in a shed for some time. And here's the list of what I did, and can't remember the precise order. New battery Repaired wires to ign switch Replace Ford solenoid with cart solenoid, now it clicks and turns motor well Clean gas tank, new gas, new gas filter Check compression, pumps up to 180 Check spark, blue New spark plug, .030 Cleaned carb, twice, will start but won't keep running without choking New carb, same result Fuel pump produces weak stream of fuel Replace pump vacuum hose with good clamps Change oil, was too full and needed it anyway Check valves, adjusted to .006 inch at tdc , didn't have a .005 Checked spark with timing lite, shuts off at a certain rpm, unhook brown wire, now will rev higher before needing choked to keep running Pulling spark plug after trying to get running, it is black from the choking Also, unhooked muffler, and no change, had thought muffler clogged, not Sprayed brake clean around carb base when turning motor over looking for intake leak, didn't rev up. I might as well put a fuel pump on it, as I really don't know how much flow this engine needs. I am out of ideas.

10-13-2019, 08:13 AM	#2
chrisr32 Gone Wild Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 190	Re: won't keep running without choking If it runs only with the choke seems to indicate lean condition but you replaced and cleaned the carb. The fuel pump will insure the bowl is always full of fuel but at idle you would think the "Fuel pump produces weak stream of fuel" would be enough yet, it may not be enough. If you gravity feed the carb with a auxiliary/test fuel tank and it works it may very well be the fuel pump.
chrisr32 Gone Wild Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 190

10-13-2019, 08:23 AM	#3
CP241 Nincompoop village idiot Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Michigan Posts: 9,682	Re: won't keep running without choking Is the airbox completely installed and sealed around the lid? That airbox lid can be a real PITA to get sealed, because of the way the 2 clips on the back side are so close to the body. If the lid isnt sealed its gonna run like dookie and you'll need choke. Same if the hose between airbox and carb is torn. More common in lifted carts but if it's been in a shed for years mice may be an issue... I'd also try manually getting a little squirt bottle and a piece of fuel hose and feeding the carb fuel just to rule out fuel supply. Though, once the bowl is full it should run for a couple minutes off what's in the bowl. Perhaps its clean but the float is set wrong, or installed upside down? (Dont mean to insult, but I've done it myself, get in a hurry start slapping stuff together and find you're getting no gas... oops lol) A small stream.of fuel is normal. The fuel pump just has to keep the bowl full. 1-2psi max

10-13-2019, 08:33 AM	#4
49ford Gone Wild Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: SW MO Posts: 265	Re: won't keep running without choking Thanks for ideas. I'll rig up something today and see how it goes, and print results.

10-13-2019, 12:48 PM	#5
49ford Gone Wild Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: SW MO Posts: 265	Re: won't keep running without choking Ok, put auxillary tank on, starts and still dies unless you choke it. And,, I haven't ever had the air filter box hooked up with all these tests. Just straight off the carb horn. Took new carb apart, found metal casting slivers. Also float is set same for closing needle and 1/16 higher on float drop, than stock carb. It doesn't look like those are easily adjustable either.

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10-13-2019, 01:00 PM	#6
chrisr32 Gone Wild Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 190	Re: won't keep running without choking Was the air box hooked before you started working on it? If it was, you may try hooking up the air box and see how it does.
chrisr32 Gone Wild Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 190

10-13-2019, 06:09 PM	#8
49ford Gone Wild Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: SW MO Posts: 265	Re: won't keep running without choking hooked up filter box and hose,, and then found another problem. The battery they brought me is too tall for the filter box to fit in behind the choke cap. The motor actually ran better, though I restricted the inlet a small amount. Only way to know for sure is to put the right battery in it and hook up to choke cap. I never encountered a gas motor that had to be so choked down to run properly. Most all gas motors need free flowing air to the carb to run. Oh well.

10-13-2019, 07:43 PM	#9
chrisr32 Gone Wild Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 190	Re: won't keep running without choking When the factory sets the main jet it is with all the hoses and emissions in mind so if you bypass the air cleaner it is now less restricted and would need to be re-jetted or just use the factory equipment. Let us know how it runs once you replace the battery and get everything put back together.
chrisr32 Gone Wild Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 190

10-20-2019, 11:12 AM	#10
49ford Gone Wild Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: SW MO Posts: 265	Re: won't keep running without choking I have the right battery in place now. The air box is installed and sealed up pretty well. The cart will start and runs well after it has a chance to warm up good. It did not want to start yesterday morning. Temp was around 50F. I found the starter functions in neutral so today I started it in neutral and warmed it up, then it did pretty good. When I first tried to start it yesterday, in reverse, it coughed and tried to start several times, then quit and would not start, choked or not. Now even if it is warmed up you must first choke it to start. Is this even close to normal for these DS gas models?

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