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Old 02-16-2018, 12:21 PM   #1
nicoleise
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Default Sepex - only reverse, only one wheel driven

Hello,


An acquintance has purchased a golf cart that they purchased without batteries. According to the seller at the time it "might have" issues with the controllers.

They installed 6 x 8V batteries, but to their disappointment the cart only moved backwards about a foot and then stopped. They asked me to help them look at it. I have no former experience with golf carts, but am an electrical installer/contractor/engineer. Through troubleshooting, I've gotten it in a slightly "better" state as now it's able to move, but only backwards.

I've determined that it must be a Club Car DS with an IQ motor controller Curtis 1510-5202 and a Lester OnBoard Computer (OBC). I've found a diagram of the controller, and information on a bypass kit for the OBC. I've been able to verify that the pin numbers, wiring colours, etc. all match up with the diagram, and have used this for my trouble shooting.


Issues
  1. The cart only drives one rear wheel when raised.
  2. The cart only travels in reverse, regardless of direction switch
  3. The cart doesn't engage the solenoid.
  4. (Bonus) I'd like to disable the OBC, as I think it's blocking the solenoid.


Confirmed working
  • Tow/Run switch
  • Pedal switch
  • Pedal potentiometer
  • Solenoid coil
  • Reverse buzzer (sounds tired though)
  • Direction switch

As I've tested these items functionality at the harness end (plugs) at the controller and OBC respectively, the wiring is included in the test.


Identified faulty components
  • Key switch, unstable output voltage
  • Battery light, defective

I found that the key switch output voltage is unstable. It could be 5V, 10V, even 40V or 50V, but not battery positive (51V in this case) when toggled. It would change to a new reading when toggling on and off. After repeatedly toggling the switch for a while, it would output an acceptable reading of a stable 50V. I suggested that the switch should be replaced.

When shorting the OBC wire from the battery light to battery negative voltage while the tow switch is in the "run" position, the indicator doesn't light up. I don't consider it a problem, but for good measure the lamp could be replaced.

That leaves the issues in the numbered list above.


1: The car only rotates one wheel
As per common sense, we have the cart lifted off the ground. When I short battery negative to the - terminal on the solenoid with the tow switch in "Run" and the key switch enabled (so; enabling the positive voltage conditions and bypassing the controller negative voltage conditions), the solenoid activates.

When the pedal is depressed, the left rear wheel (as seen from behind the cart/in relation to normal direction of travel) rotates according to throttle input. The right wheel remains stationary. Both wheels can be rotated manually when the throttle is released, albeit not easily.

When placed on the ground, the cart does move, but whether both wheels are driven once it has some resistance to deal with is unknown. Another person tried to hold the driven wheel on the raised cart (thinking that it was a normal differential system), and was unable to. This didn't cause the right wheel to be driven.

I have no idea what could be causing this issue?


2: The cart only travels in reverse
Regardless of the position of the direction switch, the cart will only rotate the one driven wheel backwards, both when raised and when on the ground. It continues this direction no matter the throttle input, so clearly not e.g. an "anti-roll-back" (hill hold) type feature.

If reverse is engaged, the cart will travel backwards with the buzzer emitting sound. If forward is engaged, the car will travel backwards with the buzzer remaining silent. According to the diagram, the buzzer is controlled by the motor controller, which thus must receive correct signals from the direction switch. I have verified that I see battery positive voltage at the expected terminals when activating the switch, including that neutral equals zero volts on both switched wires, and that activation of one direction equals battery positive on one lead and zero volts on opposite switched wire.

I would assume that only a defective motor controller could be the cause of this?


3+4: Solenoid doesn't engage
The solenoid has been replaced before my involvement as a trial. The old solenoid looks really worn, so probably it's no bad call. The solenoid isn't activated by the controller though, even when "all" the conditions are fulfilled. I suspect the OBC to be causing this issue, as it has to authorize the controller, thus meaning the controller gets all conditions except from the OBC authorization.

The OBC doesn't seem to offer any issues in terms of charging. I believe an original charger is used.

Thus I'd like to bypass the OBC - initially as a simple test, if it turns out to be the issue then the bypass will remain permanent.

I know that kits can be purchased for this purpose, but would like a simpler solution that doesn't involve paying excess and shipping costs for a few pieces of wiring.

A better solution for me would be to learn which signal the OBC needs to give the controller, so that I can simply replicate it. I would assume that it needs to send battery positive to controller terminal 5 (light blue), but that leaves controller terminal 4 (green/white) with no purpose and thus seems unlikely.

Is it a data bus, or simply a resistor system? How do I bypass it?


Situational Insight
The cart was bought in this rather crippled state. The dealer or importer or someone has agreed to taking back the new batteries, the new solenoid as well as the cart. However, they would pay 335$ for the cart, leaving the owner with a loss of 670$.

A new motor controller from the importer is 1.300$ (!!), and potentially doesn't fix the issues entirely.

The cart belongs to a kid of an acquintance, so it would be nice to see it working, but obviously not if it's a money eating pit.


I appreciate any insight,
Nicolai
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:00 PM   #2
mjroman20
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Default Re: Sepex - only reverse, only one wheel driven

It sounds like a field and/or armature shorted in the controller. Does it only move when you "bypass" the solenoid? There are a hand-full of faults, that when detected will not even attempt to close the solenoid as it may spin the motor when the throttle is not engaged. Sadly these units do not have a status light so the only way to check faults is with a handset.

One option would be to have the controller checked out. FSIP does test and advise services for controllers and can rebuild or exchange them.
http://www.fsip.biz/

The other is to continue some troubleshooting on your end. There are some wiring diagrams for that controller floating around this site somewhere.

Before that system will drive it needs to see battery volts on pin 9 (tow run input) and pin 5 (OBC charge interlock) This will power the controller up.

Next it needs a direction pin8 (FWD) or pin16 (REV) then a start switch: pin6.
Finally a throttle input on pin2: approx 0.5V at rest and 4.5 at full.

What you are seeing now is not an anti-rollback. That process occurs when the motor shaft is being rotated while the contactor is not being powered by the controller. It's activation is indicated by the rev alarm sounding and it will actually pulse the field to hold the motor stationary -or- slowly roll downhill depending on the grade its on, not spin in reverse.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:21 PM   #3
nicoleise
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Default Re: Sepex - only reverse, only one wheel driven

Thank you for the reply :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjroman20 View Post
It sounds like a field and/or armature shorted in the controller. Does it only move when you "bypass" the solenoid? There are a hand-full of faults, that when detected will not even attempt to close the solenoid as it may spin the motor when the throttle is not engaged. Sadly these units do not have a status light so the only way to check faults is with a handset.
Yes, it only moves with me bypassing the controllers side of the solenoid activation AND operation of the throttle.

I haven't had the OBC input/authorize pin (5) activated through, as I was unsure of the signal type, so more than likely this is the reason why the controller refuses activation of the solenoid. I would guess that once this too is established, the controller will enable the solenoid.

I understand which faults you mean; for example if the throttle input is present when the key switch is enabled. Such a condition should lead to the controller refusing operation as it indicates a defective throttle potentiometer. I have tested for those conditions that I could think of, and none of those are present in the cart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjroman20 View Post
One option would be to have the controller checked out. FSIP does test and advise services for controllers and can rebuild or exchange them.
[LINK REMOVED AS I'M NOT ALLOWED TO POST LINKS]

The other is to continue some troubleshooting on your end. There are some wiring diagrams for that controller floating around this site somewhere.
This is in Denmark, so FSIP isn't an option. The owner made an enquiry with the importer, and a new controller is a whopping 1,300$. No rebuilding options were presented. More troubleshooting it is. :) EDIT: I am troubleshooting using FSIP branded diagrams though, and the complexity of the electrical circuits is really low, so troubleshooting is not an issue aside from the "black box effect" of having these undocumented controllers "doing stuff" :D


Quote:
Originally Posted by mjroman20 View Post
Before that system will drive it needs to see battery volts on pin 9 (tow run input) and pin 5 (OBC charge interlock) This will power the controller up.

Next it needs a direction pin8 (FWD) or pin16 (REV) then a start switch: pin6.
Finally a throttle input on pin2: approx 0.5V at rest and 4.5 at full.
All of these conditions were tested to be fulfilled apart from the OBC pin. I can't say if it's not there, but since it's the only condition not tested for, it would be likely that it's the reason the solenoid doesn't activate.

What is the purpose of other wire for the OBC (pin 4)? Informing the OBC that the drive is enabled to allow greater current consumption?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mjroman20 View Post
What you are seeing now is not an anti-rollback. That process occurs when the motor shaft is being rotated while the contactor is not being powered by the controller. It's activation is indicated by the rev alarm sounding and it will actually pulse the field to hold the motor stationary -or- slowly roll downhill depending on the grade its on, not spin in reverse.
I assume this refers to the "always driving backwards"? Or even to the "only one wheel driven" as well?

I think I understand; the motor speed sensor informs the controller of the rotation of the axle despite the controller knowing that the solenoid output is not active. For this reason, the controller attempts to brake the cart, as it would interpret this as rolling and attempt to stop it.

It matches the feeling when turning the non-driven wheel, which would be a sensation of varying degrees of resistance.

Is it correct that this results in only one rotating wheel?


If all of these driveline "oddities" are explained by this controller behavior, then essentially the cart may simply have an unstable key switch and a faulty OBC, which can simply be bypassed by shorting controller pin 5 to battery positive.

Would doing so have any adverse effects? I understand that the cart may then be driven even with the charge cable plugged in, but are there other adverse effects than that?


Thanks again,
Nicolai
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:00 PM   #4
mjroman20
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Default Re: Sepex - only reverse, only one wheel driven

There is no ill effect to shorting pin5 to B+. This connection to the OBC simply disables the controller if the charger is plugged in. So if the OBC were bad it wouldn't allow that B+ signal out to the controller. Curtis has this setup on almost all of their newer sepex controllers so there is typically 2 pins that need to be put to B+ in order to even power it up.

As far as the single wheel rotation, from my experience that is normal but I would defer to someone with more mechanical know-how than myself.
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:03 PM   #5
mrgolf
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Default Re: Sepex - only reverse, only one wheel driven

As for just one wheel turning, that is normal operation of a differential.
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:17 PM   #6
nicoleise
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Default Re: Sepex - only reverse, only one wheel driven

Thanks! I know how diffs work, but when turning one wheel manually without power applied by the motor, it didn't rotate the other wheel opposite, nor was the other guy able to make the other wheel rotate with motor power, by trying to hold the rotating wheel. I don't have much confidence in the method though, and since it's been standing still very long, it may also be that there's alot of inherit resistance that needs exercising and lubrication to clear up before it works normally.

It seems that if my understanding of the posts so far is correct, it could be that the cart is in full working order if the key switch is replaced and the OBC authorisation output bypassed?
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:26 PM   #7
mrgolf
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Default Re: Sepex - only reverse, only one wheel driven

You could have dragging brake shoes also. Sound like more than one problem, maybe also regen holding wheels.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:50 PM   #8
LakeNut
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Default Re: Sepex - only reverse, only one wheel driven

Regen shouldn't affect the rear axle acting like a differential. That one side is stiff explains the one wheel behavior. The question is if it is stiff is a bad wheel bearing, or brakes dragging. I'm going with brakes dragging as the more likely issue, as wheel bearings usually become obviously bad before the become this stiff. And it wouldn't be uncommon for brakes to rust together set on the parking brake either.
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