Help Understanding my no-go troubleshooting

[VinHay]

I am working on a no-name 48V (chinese) cart with the HIMEN 48V controller. It's a: no-go situation and here is the troubleshooting ive done, but I cant really understand what I am seeing here. Any help is very much appreciated.

Pack Voltage 48.4

Controller Testing:(measuring B- (on the battery) to the controller i got:

B- to M-: 43V No Pedal Press- 0V Full Pedal Press
B- to A1/B+: 45V No Pedal Press- 48V Full Pedal Press
B- to A2: 38V No Pedal Press- 42V Full Pedal Press

Motor Testing:
A2/A1 Continuity
S2/S1 Continuity

A2-S2/S1 No Continuity
A1-S2/S1 No Continuity

[VinHay]

[JohnnieB]

What is the actual Ohms between A1 & A2 and between S1 & S2?

CHECK MOTOR WINDINGS:
Set your VOM to RESISTANCE (Ω).

To test the resistance of VOM leads, please touch the meter leads together.
Subtract this measurement from each test below to get your true measurement.

With motor disconnected, measure A1 to A2. This should measure approximately BETWEEN .2Ω and 2Ω.

With motor disconnected, measure F1 to F2. This should measure approximately BETWEEN .8Ω and 3Ω.

With motor disconnected, measure A1 to F1. This should measure OPEN.

With motor disconnected, measure F1 to motor case. This should measure greater than 5MΩ. (5,000,000 Ω)

[Sergio]

Your voltages and your drawing looks good.

If that Reversing Contactor is made up of two separate SPDT Solenoids, make sure the Controller M- is connected to the same type terminal in each Solenoid (Example: N.C. Terminal)

The same way make sure the Motor A2 is connected to the same type terminal in each Solenoid (Example: N.O. Terminal)

If the Reverse Contactor cables are wired properly, test if the FNR system is working.

I am assuming You already verified the Reversing Contactor Solenoids are getting power and clicking when you change directions.

Disconnect the A2 cable from the Controller and tape it as it will not be used for this test.

Disconnect the Controller M- and B+ cables that got to the Reversing Contactor.

Put your meter in continuity test and test between the two disconnected cables that were connected to Controller B+ and M-.

You should get continuity when the FNR is in forward or reverse, if You don't then replace whichever Solenoid is activating when the cart does not work.

Edit: ...overlap posting...

[VinHay]

Looks like my motor is bad?

A1/A2=51k
F1/F2=.35
A1/F1=17.7M
F1/Case=00

Originally Posted by JohnnieB

What is the actual Ohms between A1 & A2 and between S1 & S2?

CHECK MOTOR WINDINGS:
Set your VOM to RESISTANCE (Ω).

To test the resistance of VOM leads, please touch the meter leads together.
Subtract this measurement from each test below to get your true measurement.

With motor disconnected, measure A1 to A2. This should measure approximately BETWEEN .2Ω and 2Ω.

With motor disconnected, measure F1 to F2. This should measure approximately BETWEEN .8Ω and 3Ω.

With motor disconnected, measure A1 to F1. This should measure OPEN.

With motor disconnected, measure F1 to motor case. This should measure greater than 5MΩ. (5,000,000 Ω)

[Sergio]

You results are inconsistent, the A1/A2=51k does not relate with your previous test that said it had continuity (the resistance needs to be below 250Ω for the meter to pass continuity).

Hopefully You used two wrenches when removing the motor cables to prevent the stud from turning and causing issues inside the Motor.

You also have to make sure all cables have been disconnected from the Motor before doing resistance test.

Re-do the tests to see which result was accurate.

[VinHay]

All tests were done with cables disconnected at motor. (This motor has bolts to attach the leads vs. the more common studs).

Agreed....the continuity test (beep) passed. The resistance test was incosistent and all over the place.

I then tested the motor with 12V, and got nothing so I pulled it out of the cart and sent it to the motor shop. The motor looks pretty straight forward, with the exception that it's got a strange spline size.

[VinHay]

Can you help me understand the reversing relays, specifically they are SPDT.


In this diagram:

30 represents S1 and 87A/87 represent A2/M-


S1 is energized by either A2 or M- (depending on if you are in Fwd or Rev)

Same for S2 on the 2nd relay.

One of my relays is not operating at all (I do have voltage to the coil). I can manually move the plunger and create the connection in either direction.

This did not allow the cart to move.

My question is this:
Could the inop relay have caused the motor to be damaged? Looks to me S1 and S2 could have experienced opposite polarity or voltage if this was the case, NO??

Second question: Do I really need 2 of these relays? Can I just get one large enough to handle the current and combine both S1 and S2 on the same lug?

[Sergio]

If only a single SPDT Solenoid failed, the cart would still move in the direction that the working Solenoid dictates when it energizes.

That is because the non-working Solenoid is still completing the connection on the N.C. (Normally Closed) contact.

You need to replace the failed Solenoid or install a single unit like an Albright SW202 that has two SPDT Solenoids paired together in a single assembly.

No failure of the Solenoid would burn the motor, but an improperly wired reversing contactor would.

[VinHay]

That's great..thanks a bunch.

The relays Normally Closed position is to connect m- and S1...what happens when S1 is connected to M- and S2 is connected to A2? (This would be the case when the working relay is engaged when in the reverse condition)