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Old 09-26-2015, 12:10 AM   #21
Prowlerguy1
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Default Re: 1986 G3 Charging issue...please help diagnose

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh1467 View Post
does anyone have any ideas? If it could be in the wiring what should I check? There are a few relays I'm not sure what they are for except the flasher relay for the turn signals. Should the starter stop turning on its own after the cart is running?
No, the starter/generator (S/G) turns all the time. When the speed (engine rpm) gets high enough the S/G stops consuming power from the battery and begins to generate electricity to send TO the battery (in combination with the V/R).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh1467 View Post
Could the battery be the problem even tho it takes and holds a charge from my charger?
It's possible. If there is a shorted cell in the battery (a plate breaks off and shorts anode to cathode in that cell), the S/G "could" still be trying to produce 13-15V. But, it won't be able to. Since there can only be one voltage on the B+ side of the electrical system, the S/G will be trying to drag the system voltage up and the battery would be trying to drag the voltage down.

The result will end up with system voltage favoring the shorted component(s) - in this case the battery. So, if the battery has one cell shorted out, that will effectively "short out" the S/G output....down to the potential of the remaining good battery cells.

And, yes, the remaining good cells of the battery could still charge and discharge - but at the lower overall battery voltage.

Please see next post for a few more troubleshooting steps.

Regards,
Todd
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:50 AM   #22
Prowlerguy1
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Default Re: 1986 G3 Charging issue...please help diagnose

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh1467 View Post
All 3 wires to the vr have continuity between them.
What do you mean here that all 3 wires have continuity between them? Are you measuring resistance between all 3 connectors on the V/R with the V/R disconnected? (or was it still connected?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh1467 View Post
None have 12 volts even with the key on.
This concerns me, a little, kinda. There has to be B+ voltage available to the V/R for it to function properly with the key on and the pedal depressed. If you're just checking with the key it probably won't have 12V to the V/R. You have to have the key on and depress the pedal. The best way to check this is to take the positive cable off the battery (take the battery out of the system). Then, put one side of your coninutiy tester to the Positive battery cable and the other to the red/white wire on the V/R. Then, turn on the key and step on the pedal....you should see continuity when you do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh1467 View Post
I ran the redwhite wire to the positive battery terminal. It made the engine run smoother but ran with .3 volts less at the battery.....I'm just trying stuff shooting in the dark here...any ideas?
Was this with the V/R disconnected or connected?

The next troubleshooting step I would take is to remove the battery and run it down to Walmart and have them test it. They will put a load tester on it and can tell you in minutes if the battery is good or not. They'll do it for free.

If the battery checks out good, then the next step would be to figure out if the V/R is getting power (use the check I mentioned above).

If the V/R is getting power, then the next step would be to see if the S/G exciter coil is working and the S/G is producing power.

If you disconnect the V/R completely and put (jumper) B+ (12v) on the little red wire going to the S/G and make sure you have B- (ground) on the other wire (might be black or green)....this will make sure you are providing a full 12v to the excitation coil winding in the armature which will make the S/G produce the most voltage that it can (15-20V). If you do that with the engine running, then you should be generating electricity to charge the battery. While it's running pull the positive cable off the battery. If the engine quits, you're not generating electricity (the ignition system was running off of the battery only). If the engine keeps running, you're making power (the S/G power is keeping your ignition system powered and the engine running). Use your voltmeter to see what voltage the S/G is producing if the engine continues running.

If you want to check the S/G with it out of the machine, you can do a similar check. Here's how.

On the work bench, hook +12V to the little red wire, put 0V (ground or B-) on the other wire (green). Hook your voltmeter (DC) to the S/G (Red test lead to F2 and Black test lead to A1). Make sure that the A2 to F1 jumper is in place. Then, just roll the S/G shaft over by hand and watch the voltmeter. You should see pulses of DC on the meter. This check is easier (better) with an analog meter....but a digital will work. If the pulses are negative, then I messed up the polarity (switch your red and black test leads).

Let's see what you find from these checks.

Good luck,
Todd
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: 1986 G3 Charging issue...please help diagnose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowlerguy1 View Post
This concerns me, a little, kinda. There has to be B+ voltage available to the V/R for it to function properly with the key on and the pedal depressed. If you're just checking with the key it probably won't have 12V to the V/R. You have to have the key on and depress the pedal. The best way to check this is to take the positive cable off the battery (take the battery out of the system). Then, put one side of your coninutiy tester to the Positive battery cable and the other to the red/white wire on the V/R. Then, turn on the key and step on the pedal....you should see continuity when you do this.
One additional note here.....make sure that the smaller red wire (the link to the fuse) is still connected to the large red battery cable. If it is not, you have to put the red test lead to this smaller red wire. Or you can put the red test lead to either side of the fuse (with the fuse still installed). Or you can take the fuse out and put the red test lead to the side of the fuse connection that is on the key switch side of the fuse.

ALERNATE TEST (A BETTER TEST)

Here's an alternative way to check this part of the electrical system (assuming your wiring system is similar to a G2/G8/G9):

Leave the battery connected. Take either the A2 or F1 cable off of the S/G (to keep the motor from turning over during this test). Put your positive (red) voltmeter (DC Volts) test lead on the red/white wire at the V/R and the black test lead to ground (or negative terminal on the battery). Now, turn on the key and press the gas pedal. You should hear the main relay click shut and you should see 12V show up at the V/R when you step down on the pedal. The 12V should go away when you release the pedal (and you will hear the main relay click open).

This is a better test, overall, because you can confirm (absolutely) that 12V is getting to the V/R.

IN FACT - with this test procedure you can test to see if 12V is getting to all of the major electrical components, all at the same time.

Turn on the key, step on the pedal and put the positive (red) test lead on the red/white wire connection on:
1. the V/R;
2. the Ignitor;
3. the solenoid of the main starter relay (if you hear the click, then it is!);
4. on the coil;
5. and, on the little red wire (excitation field) of the S/G.

On each of these 5 places you should see 12V show up when you step on the pedal and it should go away when you release the pedal.

When you're done with the test, don't forget to put the A2 or F1 connection back together on the S/G.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Todd
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: 1986 G3 Charging issue...please help diagnose

The old s/g showed a spike in voltage while doinh your bench test. The voltage regulator does show 12v with key on and pedal down. The new s/g is on the cart right now I just wired the little green wire coming out of the s/g to the neg post and the little red wire from s/g to the pos post and ran the cart and the battery showed 11 volts....the vr was disconnected for that
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Old 09-27-2015, 07:52 PM   #25
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Default Re: 1986 G3 Charging issue...please help diagnose

Do the same check with the motor running and pull the positive cable off of the battery (with the smaller red fuse link wire also still connected to the positive cable). Like you did in Post #6. Test the voltage on the positive cable.

If the battery is bad, you should see the voltage jump up to 13.5-15V or so.

If the S/G is not generating power, the engine should quit running and you'll see 0V DC.

Wait, something you said in Post #6 has me wondering. If you pulled the positive cable off of the battery and the S/G is not generating (you said 0Volts)....the engine should not continue running - at least not on the systems I'm familiar with. Unless the G3 has an actual magneto system.

If it has a coil and ignitor or CDI, then the ignition has to be getting its power from the fuse link?

Can you post the circuit diagram? Or PM me and I'll send you my direct email to send me the diagram. I'm familiar with the G2/G8/G9....The G3 might have some differences that will make be not troubleshoot this correctly.

Thanks,
Todd
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: 1986 G3 Charging issue...please help diagnose

BTW - That's good news that the positive battery voltage shows up at the V/R with the key on and the pedal pressed. That's one part of the charging system that seems to be working properly.

Also, if the old S/G produced some pulsed DC power on the bench test, that seems to indicate that it should have been generating power.
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:18 PM   #27
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Default Re: 1986 G3 Charging issue...please help diagnose

I'm beginning to lean towards a bad battery. You've replaced everything in the charging system....except that. Also, the fact that the old S/G seems to have tested good on the bench would point toward a bad battery.

But, it's best to troubleshoot these things in a logical manner and selectively rule things out that prove to be working correctly....Like the power getting to the V/R.

One thing to keep in mind. If the battery is bad and the S/G is good and trying to charge into a battery with a bad (or shorted) cell....it will be hard on the S/G. Any time that power is trying to go into a shorted (or partially shorted) component....It usually isn't good and quite often lets the smoke out of the system

But, for short test runs, it won't damage the S/G. Just something to keep in mind.

R/Todd
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:25 PM   #28
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Default Re: 1986 G3 Charging issue...please help diagnose

Hey ceh1467,
Hope you got your cart running.

What was it?

Just curious.

Thanks,
Todd
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