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Old 11-20-2020, 03:41 PM   #11
Sergio
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

I have seen that picture floating around and I don't place much value in it as a technical reference.

For it to have any technical merit it needs to describe the test conditions applied, like discharge current, external temperature, duration of test, parts used and procedures used to create each of the connections tested and if the same criteria was applied to both tests (at least the temperature scales are different).

I also cannot understand how it is physically possible to solder a connection that has been properly crimped since you have a solid mass that is gas tight.

Where does the solder go?

Perhaps they are using the cheap automotive grade open end lug and soldering the exposed copper strands at the end of the cable which I don't doubt would create an additional path for current.

Most engineers would call that a Marketing piece (illustration purposes only) for their conclusion "Faulty connection can negatively affect the performance of a battery" and would want to see the underlaying data used before accepting the implied message being suggested.
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:11 PM   #12
yawood
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

Thank you everyone for the advice. Sergio, I saw which crimper you have on another thread and I have bought the same one. If you can dig out your individual length values, that would be great, but don't worry if they're hard to find. I will replace them individually and use the original for the length of the new one.
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:08 AM   #13
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wienerdog63 View Post
What is this trick of A1/A2 to F1/F2 ?
When you replace the A1 & A2 cables, take the original cables that were going to A1 & A2 and use them to replace the cables going to F1 & F2.

F1 & F2 don't carry a large current so they don't need heavy cables but as you've got the heavier cables that were going to A1 & A2 you may as well swap them. As Nole said, that gives you sturdier cables on F1 & F2 and that doesn't hurt.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:27 AM   #14
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

These are the cable lengths I used for my 2010 Precedent, they are the cut lengths before installing the lugs, it adds up to 18ft of cable:
Cables Between Batteries:
(2) at 17 inches
(2) at 14 Inches
(1) at 10 inches

Pack Negative thru OBC Stud
(2) at 14 inches or a single cable if lug is installed later.

Pack Positive to Solenoid/Controller
(1) at 34 inches
(1) at 14 inches

Motor Cables
(2) at 34 inches

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Old 11-21-2020, 04:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

Thank you Sergio, exactly what I wanted.
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

Wow, that's great information about the crimp vs. solder...I wish I'd have known that ahead of time. I dripped solder on my wires first, heated up just the lug with a slug of solder/flux in it, and when it got molten, jammed the wire in, removed the heat and let it solidify. I then used a length of the glue lined heat shrink. They look pretty, and hopefully will hold up. I really don't want to redo them. Ever. :)
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:55 AM   #17
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeCW View Post
Sergio, you make several valid points that make sense to me.

Interestingly though, Trojan is of the opinion based on their research that crimped and soldered connections are required.

A Readers Digest version of the attached Trojan Document:
"Connectors that are mechanically crimped to the cable’s end will create a high resistance area. At high discharge rates, this resistance can create enough heat to melt the terminal post on the battery and/or melt the adjacent insulation on the cable. ... It is therefore highly recommended that connectors not only be mechanically crimped but also soldered to the cable’s end. A properly crimped and soldered connector will provide a low resistance connection and reduce the amount of heat buildup at the connecting junction."

I can understand that a "poorly crimped connection" could be subject to higher resistance and heat build up ... but I would have thought that a highly compressed connection like shown in your cut away photo would be of negligible resistance. Is there any way to accurately determine the connection resistance other than statically using an ohm meter?
That is only an accurate statement if the crimps are done incorrectly. Every high voltage transmission line connection, transformers, bldg power cables are crimped or connected to equipment with set screw compression lugs. Every motor cable connection to 100-300HP motors on printing presses are crimped. Every motor used at an oil refinery are crimped, etc.

You cannot check resistance with an ohmmeter of a crimped connection. Just placing the lug on a stripped cable without crimping, will give you 0 ohms.
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Old 11-22-2020, 05:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

Moderators, is it worth making this a sticky? I couldn't find the information when I did a fairly extensive search before I started this thread. There is a lot of good info here.
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Old 12-09-2020, 01:16 AM   #19
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
When properly crimped the pressure turns the stranded cable into a virtually (for the sake of argument) solid mass that is gas tight
Here is an interesting video that confirms Sergio's point about properly crimped connections (as if there was any doubt ):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qYZFxQ8Pxw

I have become a believer and hereby publicly discount the Trojan document in my earlier post
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Old 12-09-2020, 08:03 AM   #20
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Default Re: How much welding cable to rewire a Precedent?

So let me throw this out there.
What are everyone's thoughts on Tinned vs Copper Only Lugs?
I personally just purchased 2ga welding cable and Tinned lugs for my cart.
I am also ditching my Hammer Crimper in leu of a newly purchased hydraulic Crimper ($30 unit from eBay).
And I use a silicon based Dielectric grease on all connections with a standard heat shrink wrap at each terminal end.

There are always multiple ways to do a single action,
The conundrum is what is:
best practice
affordable
fits your capabilities
truly necessary

Brian
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