"new" 2008 EZgo ST 2+2

[lobster]

Ok, so I haven't been here for a long time. I just noticed I haven't been on since 2009.

My brother-in-law purchased a place in the same campground and I figured I was doing him a favor...by selling our old 2004 PDS (chipped) to him for $1700. We put on leaf springs and different rims and new tires, but the batteries were either 2004 or 2006. Either way, I'd noticed it wasn't holding as long a charge. It still goes plenty fast, I figure about 22-24 mph on level ground.

On to the new cart:

Gentleman was selling this 2008 for $3200, reasonable enough and I looked around here to find plenty of carts with rear seats/roof and 2008 batteries for around 4k. So, I figure I'm getting a decent deal. Problem is, we just started driving it, and we drove it around the campground maybe 10-15 minutes and it dropped sharply into what I've seen on cars sometimes - a "limp mode". It's still moving, but it's going maybe 2-3 mph tops. I was able to get it back to our campsite, probably around a mile away. (Total mileage on the main road is about 6 miles) When it dropped, I had it almost floored, and it felt like the darn thing applied its own brakes, it slowed so quickly.

So I get it home and check water (he assured me he already did that) and see it's just a hair low, nothing to write home about. I typically add until it's just under the plastic a hair. Then I charge the cart for 7 hrs or so. Keep in mind, this whole time, the sensor shows almost full charge although I didn't have a volt-ohmmeter or anything to measure specific gravity with. After that, we took it back out and it did the same thing. Barely 15 minutes. The seller assured me that there was probably less than 3-4 hours on the cart. It *looks* like it's been well cared for, there are absolutely zero dings, he's got no corrosion on the contacts, the wires all seem good, everything is clean. *edit*: any chance that he's right and the batteries have not gotten through a good recharge/discharge cycle? That might explain why it took 7 hrs and it still didn't show a steady green on my powerwise.

Any thing else I need to check for this weekend? Going to grab my hydrometer and voltmeter. Yes, everything on this cart is supposedly factory, lift kit, tires, lights. When I purchased it, I tested it out and it worked great, even going up a small hill.

The lack of speed is another issue, can you get chips for the ST 2+2? 13 mph isn't going to cut it for the wife.

Lastly, any place to look for manuals? I read somewhere that the ST's are basically TXT's with a different front end. The serial number 2559150 shows as a

Make: ST Vehicles
Type: Electric 36 V
Model: Electric ST Sport 2+2 (PDS)
Year: 2008

Thanks for any help.

[kgsc]

You need to put the cart in diagnostic mode and drive it. May be a bad speed sensor ..

And make sure to flip it to Tow before working on any wiring

[flharleycop]

As for what is going on one of the smart guys will help you I am sure. I have the exact same cart 08 ST Sport 2+2 36v I just put new batteries in it and it goes 17-18 MPH all day it's stock so your cart should do the same once you figure out the issue.

[lobster]

well I've checked the battery voltages. All of them are 6.39, one or two was 6.40. It's still plenty cold here, I pulled out my hydrometer from the shed and it was stuck to the side so I can't use it, need to clean it out.

Battery voltage across the pack is 38.7.

I put it in diag mode and it did 3 beeps first (assuming this is the pds mode of mild hill for 14.5 mph, which explains why it is slow) then did 1 long beep and 3 short beeps for the speed sensor fault. This is prior to me driving it, will report back after I take it for a spin in the mud.

edit: after a brief drive, I have come to the conclusion there might be an open somewhere. The cart drives just fine, and this time there were no issues. I'm thinking once the connections heat up a bit, maybe it's opening up somewhere. This time I received no 1-3 fault code - I assume because I switched it to tow mode first which cleared the diags.

Any way to switch it to freedom mode easily without using the "chip"? Or is it as easy as rewiring the controller in a couple of places?

[lobster]

Ok, after the test drive at about 12-14 mph or as close to max as WOT will get me - 10 minutes max. battery pack shows about 1/3 down, and voltage across the pack is 36.4 down from 38.7. Does a lifted cart really go through that much more juice??? If I can't even get one hour use from it, it's not as useful as I need it to be.

Also, is there any difference between the chargers? I have a powerwise QE that came with the 2008 and still have the old powerwise with the amp meter from 2003.

[kgsc]

You may have a bad connection where the speed sensor plugs into the controller. Take that loose and spray a little wd40 in it. Make sure to flip the switch to Tow and disconnect a battery cable before pulling the cover. And go ahead and buy the freedom chip before you pull the cover.

[lobster]

Well, yesterday I disconnected the battery, flipped it to tow/maint, took off the cover, and then checked all the connections. I didn't have a wiring diagram and couldn't find one (I'm sure it's on this site somewhere) but I did check all the connections, unplugged them all and re-inserted them all. I did see the speed "chip" but I didn't have another wire to re-wire it. I can see it's in mode 3, mild hill, mild regen braking (my wife dislikes it intensely). The cart has not exhibited the behavior since then, and I ran it for 3-4 sessions totalling almost an hour.

I also bumped the tire inflation up dramatically - when I checked, the tires were at at astonishing 5 PSI. I noticed an immediate speed increase of 2-3 mph, I topped it out at around 15 mph according to my phone GPS. However, the lack of runtime is still an issue.

My brain couldn't let this go - after all, the seller did indicate it was used "very infrequently". Suddenly I started thinking less about how it was so "new" and more about how often it was actually charged. If the batteries sat for 6 months each season, even in a warm garage, and it was NOT charged, wouldn't the cells sulfate? Even if the batteries were original in 2007 - yes, I found the code on the negative terminal, it is E7 - if they were not even used 100 times and rarely charged/discharged, is it possible they are deeply sulfated?

My old golf cart got charged once per month regardless of use, even in the wintertime when I couldn't drive it. The batteries on that one, incredibly, are H4. They are still holding a charge better than these batteries, and yes, they are T-105's.

[lobster]

I took it to a dealer close to me - he checked out the speed sensor/magnet on the motor and found nothing wrong with it. I asked if it was possible it's the ITS under the pedal and he said no, typically they either work or they don't, same with the microswitch. From the sounds of it he did all the testing I asked plus load tested the batteries, ran it for hours and the issue did not manifest. He apologized that they couldn't correct it, but that they can't fix something that's not broken, and that it'd either been a one-time thing or it would recur sometime down the road.

He also updated the chip and put in taillights. My cost was $165. I thought that was pretty decent, considering the work they did and the parts they put in.

I'll see when I get it back!

[JohnnieB]

The 38.7V for the pack and 6.39V/6.40V for the batteries, sounds like you are taking the readings while some of the surface charge is still present.

Pack should read 38.2V or less and a 6V battery should read 6.37V or less.

What is the pack voltage about 12 hours after the charger shuts off automatically?
(Or take a 1/4 mile drive and let them rest for 15 minutes before taking the readings)

Batteries that sit without being charged sulfate pretty quickly once the SoC drops below 70% and they self-discharge at about 1% per day, so they need a boost charge at least once a month. Also, when setting, even on float or trickle charge, the electrolyte stratifies and the SG at the top of the cells gets lower while the SG at the bottom gets higher and, so the top portion of the battery is at a lower SoC than the bottom and more sulfation occurs on the upper portions of the plates, and sooner.

Did the Cart shop give you any numbers from the load testing?
(IE: How heavy of a load was used and Minutes of run-time at that amp rate, or calculated Amp-Hour capacity at time of test?)

[lobster]

Originally Posted by JohnnieB

The 38.7V for the pack and 6.39V/6.40V for the batteries, sounds like you are taking the readings while some of the surface charge is still present.

Pack should read 38.2V or less and a 6V battery should read 6.37V or less.

What is the pack voltage about 12 hours after the charger shuts off automatically?
(Or take a 1/4 mile drive and let them rest for 15 minutes before taking the readings)

Batteries that sit without being charged sulfate pretty quickly once the SoC drops below 70% and they self-discharge at about 1% per day, so they need a boost charge at least once a month. Also, when setting, even on float or trickle charge, the electrolyte stratifies and the SG at the top of the cells gets lower while the SG at the bottom gets higher and, so the top portion of the battery is at a lower SoC than the bottom and more sulfation occurs on the upper portions of the plates, and sooner.

Did the Cart shop give you any numbers from the load testing?
(IE: How heavy of a load was used and Minutes of run-time at that amp rate, or calculated Amp-Hour capacity at time of test?)

Unfortunately it sounds like he had been given the wrong numbers, he left me a voice mail last night stating that the batteries were at 40 minutes of run time. He didn't specify what amp load he used, but I am not surprised the batteries aren't in great shape. The former owner did not use it during the winter, unlike my old cart where I charged it during the winter and did charge/discharge cycles when it was possible. Those batteries still kept charge better than these!

So far they have been upfront and honest about the issue, but when he quoted me $130 per for T-105's I was a little taken aback. The only plus would be I'd know exactly what the state was on the new batteries, as opposed to purchasing online or through someone I know who sells them @ $105 each.

edit: Batteries Plus sells GC110's (East Penn) for $100 each plus core charge, might last almost as long as the Trojan's... wonder if they use recycled lead?

Bah. Wife thinks I might screw it up and dealer might be a better choice. I can't disagree, plus I really did want the T-105's and $130 is actually a decent price right now. Batteries Plus wants $175 for those!