Navitas a/c precedent/onward , speed!?

[reeseman44]

I have the dealer app, Its not de-tuned. I had it to the max and got nothing better, just less linear takeoff.
They hype was much bigger than what was delivered (only slightly better performance than what costs me about 6x less, at my dealer cost) to say im dissapointed is an understatement, thats for sure. The efficiency gain mentioned is true, however i could have gotten an extra 20% or so by choosing the 205 AH over the 170 AH batteries, which is a few hundred bucks difference, combied with either my rewound stock motor OR alltrax controller, and I would have had about the same performance and range and saved about $1400. Not exactly chump change to us working class blue collar guys. I agree with the lack of support, they evaluated my setup said its looks all good to them, said they would evaluate my setup through a higher level tech and call me back monday, that was last monday, 8 days ago.. haven't heard anything since.
But hey, its lime green, and if I throw a monster energy sticker on the cart and wear my hat backwards, ill be considered cool by the "kyles" of the world. Now excuse me while I go put my head through the drywall. Lmao


Side note,Im also thinking of going 58v lithium to get the performance out of it that im looking to attain, to the tune of another couple grand. Yippee. Lol

[fstop]

Originally Posted by reeseman44

I have the dealer app, Its not de-tuned. I had it to the max and got nothing better, just less linear takeoff.
They hype was much bigger than what was delivered (only slightly better performance than what costs me about 6x less, at my dealer cost) to say im dissapointed is an understatement, thats for sure. The efficiency gain mentioned is true, however i could have gotten an extra 20% or so by choosing the 205 AH over the 170 AH batteries, which is a few hundred bucks difference, combied with either my rewound stock motor OR alltrax controller, and I would have had about the same performance and range and saved about $1400. Not exactly chump change to us working class blue collar guys. I agree with the lack of support, they evaluated my setup said its looks all good to them, said they would evaluate my setup through a higher level tech and call me back monday, that was last monday, 8 days ago.. haven't heard anything since.
But hey, its lime green, and if I throw a monster energy sticker on the cart and wear my hat backwards, ill be considered cool by the "kyles" of the world. Now excuse me while I go put my head through the drywall. Lmao


Side note,Im also thinking of going 58v lithium to get the performance out of it that im looking to attain, to the tune of another couple grand. Yippee. Lol

When I say de-tuned I don't mean the basic settings available in the dealer app.

I mean either FW level or parameters only accessible in the engineering app.

The motor and controller have been referred to here on the forum before as a "beast in a cage". The motor is 72 lbs or so - IMO it's clearly capable of more than they are allowing via dealer app-accessible adjustments. Frustrating - I'd agree.

However, this is also a motor / controller designed and engineered for more extreme installs if an owner wants to take it to that point - meaning 48v is really starving it for voltage. Doug R. on the forum is running 72v lithium with 22" tires, stock gear ratio, in a Precedent with 5KW Navitas and has no problem hitting 50mph on flats, and mid to higher 40s on hills. His is not something I'd call super extreme either, but keeping input voltage high is clearly key in the performance area.

I think if the AC drive / efficiency isn't important, and you don't need capability to go with voltages up to 100v in the future, I'd completely agree that there are more cost effective solutions - no doubt about it.

[reeseman44]

I agree. And thats why I am leaning toward yet another large investment and going with a 58v 120ah leaf g2 lithium pack. Double down and hope for the best.

[fstop]

Originally Posted by reeseman44

I agree. And thats why I am leaning toward yet another large investment and going with a 58v 120ah leaf g2 lithium pack. Double down and hope for the best.

I'm pretty confident you'll have a grin on your face with 58v nominal.

Assuming it holds 55+v under WOT I think you'll see 40 and maybe some change under ideal conditions with 23s.

[Beerdude77]

Originally Posted by fstop

I'm pretty confident you'll have a grin on your face with 58v nominal.

Assuming it holds 55+v under WOT I think you'll see 40 and maybe some change under ideal conditions with 23s.

Can an Allied or Roypow set up deliver the same type of results?

[fstop]

Originally Posted by Beerdude77

Can an Allied or Roypow set up deliver the same type of results?

You might want to search the forum as it's been covered in detail, but I have the 105ah Roypow with Navitas 5kw motor / Tac2 controller, 23" tires, stock gear ratio, 4 passenger factory-lifted Onward.

My driving environment is paved surfaces, flat ground, so assume that for below observations:

Effective range is 2x + what my FLA pack allowed. 44-50 miles if speeds capped at 22.5mph, acceleration rates kept easy / moderate. WOT everywhere and gravel-spitting takeoffs will cut this way back. A little of it here and there won't affect it much though.

Performance does not fade after 5-6 miles like the FLA pack did.

For me, repeatable GPS speeds are 35-38 (depending on # passengers, windshield up or down, amount of headwind, grade, etc...). I've seen it blip to 39 and 40 on occasions but I wouldn't call that repeatable or accurate, but I know some folks report speed numbers optimistically. I'm more of a realist.

Acceleration is considerably better (losing 317 lbs is a big contributor to this).
Under full acceleration, my FLA pack (just off the charger) would drop to 43.5v for 3 seconds or so during the highest current draw. My RoyPow drops to no less than 51 if it is at full SOC, and only dips below 50v at full load if SOC gets 55% or less, and then its still 49.6v etc...

Charge speed is ~10mph (if using the range figures above, assuming 22.5 speeds etc...)

[reeseman44]

thanks for the report.
Whats your roypow pack voltage?

[fstop]

Originally Posted by reeseman44

thanks for the report.
Whats your roypow pack voltage?

53.4v @ 100% SOC on included meter, but a full 3.55v / cell charge would be
56.8v. Battery / charger combo keeps "full charge" to less than maximum, which is good. When all "bars" on the SOC meter are depleted it is still well above the 2.5v / cell voltage floor for LifePo4. BMS cuts off at some voltage point - I posted what it is a while back. My range tests were concluded well above 2.5v / cell, and I've never had the BMS cut out for any reason (under / over voltage, over current, temperature, etc...).

[reeseman44]

What discharge amps are your bms rated at?
The pack im looking at is 120.
Im worried cause the navitas all says i pull 200 or over depending upon settings.

[fstop]

Originally Posted by reeseman44

What discharge amps are your bms rated at?
The pack im looking at is 120.
Im worried cause the navitas all says i pull 200 or over depending upon settings.

It's rated at 200a for 10 seconds. Others on the forum have confirmed higher draw is possible w/out triggering, but I'm not sure what that limit is. RoyPow gave me some info at one point, but I'd have to go back and look it up.

My cart, with settings not limiting anything, and my current limit set to 400a pulls about 225a max on hard acceleration from a stop, for maybe a second and a half, then ramps down from there.

If you have hills and like to run WOT up them (esp. with 4 people in the cart), and have larger tires, and do this often, you might want to look at something else.

I have no problem with 4 people and max settings under full acceleration.

I don't drive that way, but have done so testing things out. I do push it here and there, but it's not my constant driving style. There is a guy on here with a 56ah RoyPow that pushes it really hard - wheelies and such, and basically said he isn't easy on it and doesn't intend to be, and last I heard it's standing up to that treatment. For how long nobody knows. They haven't been around for more than 9 months or so I think.