HELP! Reducing Clicks on HD Solenoid

[Hunter450]

I built my cart for hunting and with the addition of a 400 amp rated solenoid the plunge engagement and disengagement CLICK drives me crazy in a quiet woods. My question stems from a comment made by another member in a thread that also hunts.

I have an IQ control system with an MCOR. When I depress the go pedal I hear a micro switch that apparently allows voltage to the solenoid to activate and I assume when you let off the pedal, that micro switch kills the voltage to the solenoid and it CLICKS again to disengage. What are the pros and cons to sending 48 to the solenoid using the key switch? Get in the cart, turn the key switch and 1 CLICK....get to my destination, park... turn the key switch off and 1 CLICK....No CLICKING along the way. Are there any issues switching from forward to reverse? I'm the sole operator of my cart.

All comments greatly appreciated.

[Fairtax4me]

The Alltrax is what controls the solenoid On/Off. The MCOR throttle switch just sends a signal to the controller.

There's probably a way it can be bypassed, but the Alltrax may end up setting a code for a welded solenoid and/or going to limp mode. Hopefully someone who knows the XCT better will chime in.

[Sergio]

Fairtax4me is correct as far as by-passing the Solenoid activation and provided the clues for the answer:

1. The MCOR micro switch is just another input signal the Controller uses to determine when to turn the Solenoid ON/OFF.
2. The Controller itself is in charge of turning the Solenoid ON/OFF.

One Solution to the "Hunting Mode Switch" is to add a simple SPDT switch that controls what signal is sent to the Controller pin #6 (Accelerator pedal input).

The center of the SPDT switch is connected to the Controller pin #6 (cut the green wire that goes to controller pin #6 and connect the controller side wire to this terminal).

One side of the SPDT switch goes to the output of the MCOR micro-switch (green wire from MCOR that was cut from Controller Pin #6).

The other side of the SPDT switch goes to the Key Switch "cold side".

When the switch is on "Hunting Mode", the Controller pedal input comes from the key switch so it will not disengage the Solenoid when pedal is up.

Flip the SPDT switch to "Normal mode" and the cart works as usual.

If for some reason the Alltrax XCT does any kind of check on the pedal micro-switch and generates an error while switching directions while in "hunting mode", it will not a problem but we would then need to get the "hunting mode" power from the FNR switch (instead of key switch) so the Solenoid disengages while the FNR switch is or travels through neutral.

[R&TBabich]

Originally Posted by Fairtax4me

The Alltrax is what controls the solenoid On/Off. The MCOR throttle switch just sends a signal to the controller.

There's probably a way it can be bypassed, but the Alltrax may end up setting a code for a welded solenoid and/or going to limp mode. Hopefully someone who knows the XCT better will chime in.

Just talked to Will at Alltrax and he was saying the XCT won't care if the solenoid is already closed, it will go ahead and activate it like normal (GND pin #12). It doesn't look at the solenoid input for status and doesn't have a code for welded contacts. However, if the solenoid is left closed for an extended period of time with high amp use it could get overheated creating resistance affecting the voltage the controller sees and set limp mode.

[Sergio]

I don't think Will's suggestion is a safe idea as it also prevents the Controller from disabling the Solenoid in case of a dangerous condition.

Adding the switch as I suggested still leaves the Controller in full control of when to disable the Solenoid.

[Hunter450]

As a mechanical type, I would like to know the reasoning for having a solenoid in the cart. A buddy of mine hunts with another brand of electric cart and the best I can tell there are no solenoids engaging.

Sometimes I miss the old childhood go-cart where you just pulled a rope to start and mashed the gas to go.

Is there any harm switching the FNR switch while the solenoid is engaged? The reason is I have some travel slop in my go pedal travel where it needs to depress a good 2 inches for my cart to move. Could a pedal stop be installed so when I let up, the pedal would stop before opening the MCOR foot switch and telling the controller to open the solenoid.

[Sergio]

The Solenoid is a critical safety device on electrical carts, below is what Alltrax says on their XCT manual:

https://alltraxinc.com/wp-content/up...ge=9&view=fitH

If You think about it, the breakers in your home's electrical panel serve no purpose in allowing any appliance or light to work, so would You remove them?

These devices only purpose is to prevent a dangerous situation due to an unforeseen failure anywhere in the circuit.

Changing directions while power may still be flowing through the Motor is more of an issue in Series carts as an external mechanical switch is doing the current reversal and connecting/disconnecting DC current is very hard on contacts due to a lack of 0v crossing which helps stopping electrical arcs.

Since in Sepex carts the high current through the Armature never changes directions, just the small current through the Field coils and that current is reversed by the Controller, I assume the Controller handles cutting the current off when it senses the FNR traveling through neutral.

I am going to make some small adjustments to my Regen current this week and can test by observing the monitor screen what happens to the Solenoid and different currents if I have the pedal pressed a little while changing directions.

You can try that on your cart, press the pedal until the Solenoid clicks then put the cart in neutral or change directions and listen for the Solenoid dropping.

[Hunter450]

Sergio - I appreciate your analogy of the home circuit breaker and no, I would not remove them for multiple reasons, required by code, safety and control of circuit power. However, with the XCT, Alltrax provides a main fuse to be installed on Battery 1 (+) which I have. Both the fuse and the solenoid are rated at 400 amps and basically on opposite ends of the same cable.

So, if the solenoid is considered a safety circuit breaker, what is need for 2 in the same power circuit?

I will try the depressed pedal and working the FNR switch to see what the solenoid does. Please let us know what you find out with your cart.

[Sergio]

I was out with the cart last night and played with the FNR and the Controller handles it pretty much as expected, the Solenoid does not drop while in Neutral until there has been no movement of the cart for about 2 seconds.

So even with the foot on the accelerator and moving forward, place the cart in neutral and it coasts (that may be just my cart as I have 0 amps Regen with "Pedal Up") once the cart stops moving, two seconds later the Solenoid drops even if You are still pressing the accelerator.

If You change directions while still moving, the Controller activates your "Plug Brake" per your settings level which is typically harsh until the cart stops moving and then it moves in the opposite direction.

That gave me another and I think better idea for the "hunt mode" switch.


Using a SPDT (3 terminal) Switch:

Center Terminal is wired to the Key Switch +48v "Cold Side" (switched).

One Side of the Switch (Hunt Mode) is spliced (Scotchlok T-Tap is OK due to small current) to the "Green" output wire of the MCOR or "Green" wire at the Controller #6 pin.

The other side of the Switch (Normal Mode) is wired to the Reverse Buzzer. Disconnect the pink wire from the Reverse buzzer and connect this wire to where the "Pink" wire was connected.

That way not only the Solenoid stays engaged in "Hunt Mode" but there is no Reverse Buzzer either, switching to "Normal Mode" works as OEM.

While in "Hunt Mode" the Controller can still open the Solenoid in case of any "Shutdown" condition it detects like overheated Controller or stalled motor.

[DaveTM]

I've been following this thread and as usual, Sergio has offered some great solutions to this issue. Engineers minds work differently than others. I know that as my Son has a masters in engineering and works for a major auto manufacturer in the "tech department."

However, as an alternative you could always try to cover the offending solenoid with a sound dampening "housing." Just Google "Sound covering for small electrical devices" and you get a hundred + different types of materials that could built into a shroud to cover the solenoid.

Of course, you want air to flow freely around the solenoid so I would not suggest enclosing it to be air tight.

Just a thought as I haven't tested this. My reversing contactors make the "click" sound every time I hit the throttle......but IMHO it's not loud enough to make a difference. Besides, I usually get to where I wanna go and shut the cart down.

FWIW