1982 G1 Dual Solenoid, how can I check

[Green Planet]

Ok will do and can do... I spun the starter / generator but not the motor. Should I pull the plug before I turn the motor ? Should I try to start the motor with spark plug removed ?
And can I rule out the CDI and Magneto, or do they need to be ruled out also..?

I already checked the yellow and light blue wires on the sstarter assembly and they are properly activated when the main switch is in the corresponding position.

I am leaning towards the starter / generator, also....it's just a lot of work to remove. ..other things are easier ..lol. if you think my best bet is to pull it, I will.

I just wanted to get your opinion on if it could possibly be any one of the things I mentioned above. .ie.
CDI, Magneto, ? And should I try and turn it over with the sparkplug removed before, ,,pulling the starter / generator. ?

THANKS A MILLION. ...your input has been priceless, I will be supporting the forum with a donation, and will follow up. Scincerely , John

[smallblock450sl]

Please don't over think this! You have a "starting" problem. The CDI/Magneto is for spark, whole differant animal. Lable the wires to the starter/generator and remove (might be easier to disconnect the positive battery cable at the battery though). Disconnect the red/green charging wires. Remove the 12mm nut for the adjustment bolt, Remove the 17mm pivot bolt nut, remove the bolt and the starter/generator pulls out. Remove the rubber brush covers and take a picture. What ever you do..do not blow out the dust and breathe it....IT IS VERY NASTY!!!!! We can continue after this step.

[Green Planet]

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Here are pictures of the 4 openings .... it spins freely with little resistance.

For others who may find this thread helpful, when removing the starter/generator

from its mounted location, follow the instructions given earlier in this thread, when sliding

the 17mm long bolt out of its housing, it may hit the chassis and not come out completely.

I found by removing the 14mm nut that attaches the engine mounting frame to the chassis

In the front left corner, located just left of the mufflers left band clamp. By removing this 14mm nut I was able to raise

the engine frame enough for the 17mm long bolt to clear the chassis and free the starter / generator.

[smallblock450sl]

Brushes are very low in the slides and could even be stuck, not touching the armature. Take the 2 10mm head thru bolts out and tap on the brush holer end plat to get it if the armature bearing. Then post some more pictures.

[Green Planet]

Here are some pictures of the starter / generator with brushes exposed. They did not seem

to have been stuck. Let me know what you think ? Thanks again for your help

[Prowlerguy1]

Howdy,

While you have the S/G out of the cart, try a little more troubleshooting of the electrical circuit to rule out any problems. This test is kind of a duplicate of the test that SmallBlock described in posts #6 and #10. The only difference is that with the S/G out of the circuit you can tell absolutely what the S/G is/was "seeing" when you were trying to start it.

Here's how:

(BTW - this is assuming that the electrical wiring diagram for the G1A in post #3 earlier is the correct wiring diagram.)

1. Make sure that the battery is installed, charged and working correctly.
2. Make sure that all the fuses are installed and not open or blown.
3. Connect a DC voltmeter positive (red) test lead to the cable that would be connected to the A2 post on your S/G. Then connect the negative (black) test lead to the cable that would be connected to the A1 post of the S/G.
4. Temporarily connect the cable to F1 and the cable to F2 together.
5. Turn the key to Forward and step on the pedal. If I've traced my wires correctly, you should see +12V on the meter when you step on the pedal and it should go back to 0V when you release the pedal. You should also be able to hear and feel the relay with the Yellow wire (Forward relay) click shut.
6. Next, put the master switch back in off and then change the red and black test leads for your DC voltmeter (put Red on A1 and Black on A2).
7. Put the main switch in Reverse and step on the pedal. Again, if I've traced the wires correctly in the diagram, you should see +12V on the meter. Also, you should hear and feel the relay with the light blue wire (reverse relay) click shut and open as you step on and off of the pedal.
8. Make notes of the results, turn the main switch off and remove the test leads and jumpers.

What these tests will tell you:

If you did get the +12V DC in each test above, then the S/G is being provided the correct polarity voltage in both forward and reverse....So the problem lies with the S/G.

If both tests showed -12V DC, then I had the test leads on the wrong cables, but it is still a good check (I think I got that correct tho....I triple checked).

If you did not get the +12V in either of those tests, then the problem is likely not the S/G and there is a problem with the switches, wires or relays. More testing will be required with the S/G out of the system. I can help you track backwards until we find the +12V and the faulty component(s).

Let us know what you find out.

Regards,
Todd

[Green Planet]

Ok, I'm back....

Many thanks to "Smallblock450sl and Prowlerguy1" for all the input and advice.

I ran down the check list that Prowlerguy1 sent me and the fuses were checked, both 10A , one on the +12v DC lead R/W, that starts at the battery, and one fuse on the Negative lead that runs from the front of the grounded terminal that starts at the solenoid assembly. No problems with fuses

Then I started the testing procedure outlined, The leads were energized
(+12v DC) with the switch in Fwd and pedal depressed....

BUT..... upon reversing the test leads, and with the switch in Rev and pedal depressed ....I got No reading

Well that does it for now, I will await for Prowlerguy1 "Todd" to respond , I hope with his help I can exorcise this Demon from my Yami...

[Prowlerguy1]

Originally Posted by Green Planet

Then I started the testing procedure outlined, The leads were energized
(+12v DC) with the switch in Fwd and pedal depressed....

BUT..... upon reversing the test leads, and with the switch in Rev and pedal depressed ....I got No reading

OK GP. With this info, we can assume that your S/G should work properly when trying to start the motor in the FWD direction.

However, for some reason the electrical system to energize the S/G in the REV direction is not working correctly.

First question to answer is: Could you hear and/or feel the REV relay clicking when you were doing the previous test?? That would tell us that the system is working, but the power is just not getting thru the REV relay contacts to the S/G (you MIGHT be able to clean up the contacts).

If you could NOT hear the REV relay clicking, then that would indicate that either:
A. You are not getting power to the REV relay solenoid (No +12V DC on the Light Blue wire on the REV relay solenoid connection);
B. The power is getting to the relay solenoid, but the relay solenoid coil is burned out or has an open circuit of some kind;
C. The power is getting to the relay solenoid, but the relay contacts are not moving (somehow the relay is stuck, jammed, frozen, etc.)

You can quickly verify this by placing the DC voltmeter positive (red) test lead on the REV relay solenoid post with the Light Blue wire connected to it. Put the negative (black) test lead on the negative battery post (or ground). Turn the main switch to REV and step on the pedal. If the voltmeter reads +12V, then the electrical system to energize the REV relay solenoid is working correctly....but the relay is not moving and the REV contacts are not closing (again, could be because of either item B. or C. above).

This would require replacing (or possibly repairing) the REV relay. I am not familiar with those type of starter relays, so I am not sure if they can be easily taken apart, cleaned up, maybe lubricated and put back together. Someone here may have more info about this.

There are threads on this forum for replacing these solenoids with newer, aftermarket solenoids. Here's one: http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/gas-y...id-please.html

So, for now, try testing the voltage on the Light Blue wire on the solenoid of the REV relay and let's see what you find there.

Happy Troubleshooting,
Todd

[Green Planet]

Ok...here it is.

I went back over all the connections and everything checked out. This includes the solenoids, and the main F/R switch. So I cleaned the starter/generator, and had it bench tested in both directions, it tested GOOD

So where does that leave me now ? :scratch

The gentleman that bench tested the Str/Gen, said I may not be getting a ground to the
Str/Gnr, if the rubber that mounts the engine to the chassis was worn.

Todd, if you're reading this....it was not the Str/Gnr. .... so , I patiently wait for any instructions you have that can help me check from the str/gnr back.

Thanks for all your help so far.

[Prowlerguy1]

Hey GP,

From your last post, I couldn't quite tell if you meant that you'd put everything back together and tried to start the cart, or not.

If you haven't done that, then I'd just put everything back together and give it a try.

I went back to your first post and saw that you said that both of your starter solenoids were clicking.

And, 3 posts ago you said that you were getting +12V on the S/G connections with the FWD test I had you do.

So, if you put everything back together, the cart should try to start (electrically) when you try it; at least in the FWD direction. By that, I mean the S/G should roll over in the FWD direction. (Now, if the S/G is rolling over, but the cart doesn't start....then, obviously, that leads to an ignition, or fuel or air problem.)

If you were not getting +12V in the REV starting direction, and the S/G will not roll over in the REV direction, then we can troubleshoot that with the S/G in the cart, later.

See what happens, and let us know.

R/ Todd