Oil into chocolate milk

DannyAbear · 11-01-2018, 02:22 PM

Sorry, did not mean for that to sound like a smarta$$ answer

rshurson1 · 11-01-2018, 03:18 PM

He says it gets the engine up to operating temperature faster, reducing the time for condensates to form, and increasing the time to burn off any that do. Water in the oil was due to water not having a chance to cook off.

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dundeebarnbuggy · 11-01-2018, 04:31 PM

That's a new one for me too!

The ONLY way to avoid water condensing in the combustion chamber and migrating down into the crankcase is 1, an engine in good condition [no blowby past the rings] and, getting it up to temps and and keeping it there long enough for the oil and crankcase to get warm enough for water/vapor to evaporate, hopefully before it gets fully mixed with the oil. Once it is mixed no amount of running will reverse it, [trust me I've tried]. No sparkplug is gonna change that. One thing you can do to help this however, is to partially block the cooling air intake screen in front of the flywheel when operating in cooler weather. See, these engines are designed to stay cooled in 100 degree heat. There is no thermostat like in a water cooled engine to control this when the weather changes so they run cold. A LOT of little standby generators here were ruined during the ice storm of 98 because of that little issue. They ran cold in the winter [average temp was just below freezing], oil turned milky, and they scored cylinders and eventually threw rods. Some guys put them in cardboard boxes with a hole cut out for the exhaust and a little fresh air and had no issues. Best thing you can do besides reducing the cooling air is to start it in the morning and let it run at a fast idle [in neutral] for 15 minutes or so before you start using it for the day.

rshurson1 · 11-01-2018, 06:03 PM

The best teacher is experience! He did mention blocking off the air fan but recommended against it. But your explanation is compelling, so I may do that. I also have a generator and the manufacturer requires that synthetic oil be used. It exercises itself for 15 minutes each week, winter or summer, and after a year and a half, that oil looks great yet.

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tony357 · 11-01-2018, 07:15 PM

The spark plug will generate heat in the engine, the plug is in direct contact with the combustion burn, if it has a longer path to the cylinder head it will heat up faster and pass that hotter temp to the cylinder head. Every little bit helps I guess.

dundeebarnbuggy · 11-01-2018, 07:46 PM

I forgot to mention that a hotter plug only refers to the temperature the center electrode operates at due to a longer path for heat to travel to reach the body of the plug where it disipates into the head/metal of the engine and is designed to help burn off deposits from combustion. Too hot a plug will cause the center electrode to glow and cause precombustion/detonation as it ignites the charge too early before the piston gets near top dead center. A hotter/fatter spark is ONLY made with your ignition system, [magneto,coil or CDI ect box.] the plug type has almost no effect on this. Hope this helps.

Fairtax4me · 11-01-2018, 10:07 PM

The heat range of a spark plug defines its ability to dissipate heat that builds in the center electrode of the plug. It does not affect the combustion temp or running temp of the engine except in very specific situations. The only real reason a plug will affect running temp is if the plug has a very high heat range, and the engine is producing high amounts of heat during combustion. Usually this is from forced induction or an excessively lean air fuel ratio.
The plug will overheat and create a hot spot where the incoming A/F mixture can be ignited purely by the heat of the plug, and the combustion of the A/F mixture happens before the ispark is commanded by the ignition system. Pre-ignition, or spark knock, as it’s usually refered, if bad enough will eventually lead to major damage.
It isn’t usually a problem on small engines unless you have a very lean AF mixture, or the engine is overheating for some reason.

That said, if the spark plug is sooty, it could benefit from having a hotter plug installed, as a hotter plug will be less likely to carbon foul. But it was not going to make a difference in the overall operating temp of the engine. You might step up one heat range, to a 5, but going to a 4 right away is probably not the best idea.

Mooncarter · 11-01-2018, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rshurson1

He says it gets the engine up to operating temperature faster, reducing the time for condensates to form, and increasing the time to burn off any that do. Water in the oil was due to water not having a chance to cook off.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I gotta see this.

DaveTM · 11-02-2018, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairtax4me

The heat range of a spark plug defines its ability to dissipate heat that builds in the center electrode of the plug. It does not affect the combustion temp or running temp of the engine except in very specific situations. The only real reason a plug will affect running temp is if the plug has a very high heat range, and the engine is producing high amounts of heat during combustion. Usually this is from forced induction or an excessively lean air fuel ratio.
The plug will overheat and create a hot spot where the incoming A/F mixture can be ignited purely by the heat of the plug, and the combustion of the A/F mixture happens before the ispark is commanded by the ignition system. Pre-ignition, or spark knock, as it’s usually refered, if bad enough will eventually lead to major damage.
It isn’t usually a problem on small engines unless you have a very lean AF mixture, or the engine is overheating for some reason.

That said, if the spark plug is sooty, it could benefit from having a hotter plug installed, as a hotter plug will be less likely to carbon foul. But it was not going to make a difference in the overall operating temp of the engine. You might step up one heat range, to a 5, but going to a 4 right away is probably not the best idea.

Logic!! My gut feel was gas burns at a given temperature. A hotter plug (one that as Fairtaxme pointed out, that does not dissipate heat as fast) won't make the entire engine "hotter" than any other plug.

Running the engine longer in order for the heat to spread thru the engine as it was designed to, will burn off any condensation that's in there.

11-01-2018, 02:22 PM	#21
DannyAbear Gone Wild Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, La. Posts: 398	Re: Oil into chocolate milk Sorry, did not mean for that to sound like a smarta$$ answer

11-01-2018, 03:18 PM	#22
rshurson1 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 12	Re: Oil into chocolate milk He says it gets the engine up to operating temperature faster, reducing the time for condensates to form, and increasing the time to burn off any that do. Water in the oil was due to water not having a chance to cook off. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
rshurson1 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 12

11-01-2018, 04:31 PM	#23
dundeebarnbuggy Gone Wild Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Dundee quebec Posts: 3,190	Re: Oil into chocolate milk That's a new one for me too! The ONLY way to avoid water condensing in the combustion chamber and migrating down into the crankcase is 1, an engine in good condition [no blowby past the rings] and, getting it up to temps and and keeping it there long enough for the oil and crankcase to get warm enough for water/vapor to evaporate, hopefully before it gets fully mixed with the oil. Once it is mixed no amount of running will reverse it, [trust me I've tried]. No sparkplug is gonna change that. One thing you can do to help this however, is to partially block the cooling air intake screen in front of the flywheel when operating in cooler weather. See, these engines are designed to stay cooled in 100 degree heat. There is no thermostat like in a water cooled engine to control this when the weather changes so they run cold. A LOT of little standby generators here were ruined during the ice storm of 98 because of that little issue. They ran cold in the winter [average temp was just below freezing], oil turned milky, and they scored cylinders and eventually threw rods. Some guys put them in cardboard boxes with a hole cut out for the exhaust and a little fresh air and had no issues. Best thing you can do besides reducing the cooling air is to start it in the morning and let it run at a fast idle [in neutral] for 15 minutes or so before you start using it for the day.

11-01-2018, 06:03 PM	#24
rshurson1 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 12	Re: Oil into chocolate milk The best teacher is experience! He did mention blocking off the air fan but recommended against it. But your explanation is compelling, so I may do that. I also have a generator and the manufacturer requires that synthetic oil be used. It exercises itself for 15 minutes each week, winter or summer, and after a year and a half, that oil looks great yet. Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
rshurson1 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 12

11-01-2018, 07:15 PM	#25
tony357 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 67	Re: Oil into chocolate milk The spark plug will generate heat in the engine, the plug is in direct contact with the combustion burn, if it has a longer path to the cylinder head it will heat up faster and pass that hotter temp to the cylinder head. Every little bit helps I guess.
tony357 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 67

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11-01-2018, 07:46 PM	#26
dundeebarnbuggy Gone Wild Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Dundee quebec Posts: 3,190	Re: Oil into chocolate milk I forgot to mention that a hotter plug only refers to the temperature the center electrode operates at due to a longer path for heat to travel to reach the body of the plug where it disipates into the head/metal of the engine and is designed to help burn off deposits from combustion. Too hot a plug will cause the center electrode to glow and cause precombustion/detonation as it ignites the charge too early before the piston gets near top dead center. A hotter/fatter spark is ONLY made with your ignition system, [magneto,coil or CDI ect box.] the plug type has almost no effect on this. Hope this helps.

11-01-2018, 10:07 PM	#27
Fairtax4me Bonafide Nincompoop Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Charlottesburg Va Posts: 8,987	Re: Oil into chocolate milk The heat range of a spark plug defines its ability to dissipate heat that builds in the center electrode of the plug. It does not affect the combustion temp or running temp of the engine except in very specific situations. The only real reason a plug will affect running temp is if the plug has a very high heat range, and the engine is producing high amounts of heat during combustion. Usually this is from forced induction or an excessively lean air fuel ratio. The plug will overheat and create a hot spot where the incoming A/F mixture can be ignited purely by the heat of the plug, and the combustion of the A/F mixture happens before the ispark is commanded by the ignition system. Pre-ignition, or spark knock, as it’s usually refered, if bad enough will eventually lead to major damage. It isn’t usually a problem on small engines unless you have a very lean AF mixture, or the engine is overheating for some reason. That said, if the spark plug is sooty, it could benefit from having a hotter plug installed, as a hotter plug will be less likely to carbon foul. But it was not going to make a difference in the overall operating temp of the engine. You might step up one heat range, to a 5, but going to a 4 right away is probably not the best idea.