Steering modification questions

jackel440 · 09-17-2009, 12:26 AM

Ok I have an Idea i qant to run across you guys.I recently posted about the Taylor Dunn flatbed I just got.
Well anyways I have noticed I get lots of feed back through the steering wheel when driving over rough ground.I expect this as it was not designed for being off smooth factory floors.Anyways I was at work tonight and was driving a newer Cushman flat bed.I decided to take it outside over some rougher terrain to se how it handled.I didn't get any of the feed back through the wheel unlike the taylor dunn.
So I looked under it and noticed that the part of the spindle where the tie rods mount are extended almost equal to the back of the tire.I believe my TD tie rod ends are closere to the spindle.
WOuld lengthening the arm on my spindles reduce the feed back through the steering wheel?
The drag link mount at the spindle looked to be the same distance as mine so I think having the tie rod bar mount back farther must counter act the leverage of the tires when going over an obstacle.Does this make sense?I want to reduce the feedback in the steering wheel so when it does jerk back it won't rip off somebodys thumb.

Rodger's Rides · 09-17-2009, 08:53 PM

Steering "feed back" usually comes as a result of not enough caster set into the front end settings. Now if your are talking about the TD sort of wants to decide on iys own as to which direction it is going, I would look at too much "TOE OUT". If the steering wheel wants to snap back to center when driving into a turn, your acker man arms may be of the wrong length or angle. The shorter the ackerman arms are the quicker the front wheels will want to turn. Incorrect angle and the tire on the inside ( of the turn) could decide to turn 90 degrees and the tire on the outside could be almost straight. You also may have some excessive wear allowing the front steering to react as it pleases instead of what it is being directed to do via the steering wheel. Too much positive camber will cause the cart to want to pull in that direction. Setting up the geometery on the front end of any vechile is a bit tricky unless you have some training and experience on a "Front end alignment" machine.

scottyb · 09-17-2009, 09:04 PM

Excellent info Rodger

I was thinking about lengthening the ackerman arms on my spindles to facilitate a sharper turn. My tie rods are hitting the shock. ... but I understand now that that will slow the response, which I am not will to do. Thanks again

jackel440 · 09-18-2009, 12:45 AM

Roger,
Thanks for the great info.
I want to clear up a few details i tried to give.I jacked up the front end on my TD and the tie rod ends and the drag link are in good service able condition.My toe Looks good,but I have not checked it with a tape yet.My TD has a solid axle mounted on leaf springs just the same way a farm truck would be.
The truck drives straight and handles very well on smooth surfaces.What I am getting into is when I am driving over say a #2 stone or bumpy ground with one tire and not the other I get some serious feedback through the steering wheel.I was backing up yesterday while turning and I ran over a large stone or something and it jerked the wheel out of my hand and made atleast one revolution.
I was comparing the cushman flat bed at work tonight ,and drove it over some really rough ground and I got zero feedback unlike My TD.I also noticed the Ackerman arms are longer.Yes I did notice it seemed to take more turning of the steering wheel to turn the truck than it does mine maybe,not sure though?I took some pics of the front end of the cushman here is a link.
I will post some pics of the front of my TD tomorrow.

I just want to reduce the feed back through the steering wheel when I am driving it over rougher ground.

jackel440 · 09-20-2009, 12:06 AM

I was looking at a TD at work today and noticed that my shackles on the front springs have been inverted.I guess you could say it has a shackle lift on the front.
Instead of the shackles going down from the spring to the mount.Mine are going up to the frame.I dont think this has much affect on the steering issue just an observation.
I might have a little slop in the drag link end at the knuckle.I was messing around with it yesterday and noticed a little movement there.I will have to get it up in the air and check it out better.

09-17-2009, 12:26 AM	#1
jackel440 Gone Wild Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Galveston,IN Posts: 386	Steering modification questions Ok I have an Idea i qant to run across you guys.I recently posted about the Taylor Dunn flatbed I just got. Well anyways I have noticed I get lots of feed back through the steering wheel when driving over rough ground.I expect this as it was not designed for being off smooth factory floors.Anyways I was at work tonight and was driving a newer Cushman flat bed.I decided to take it outside over some rougher terrain to se how it handled.I didn't get any of the feed back through the wheel unlike the taylor dunn. So I looked under it and noticed that the part of the spindle where the tie rods mount are extended almost equal to the back of the tire.I believe my TD tie rod ends are closere to the spindle. WOuld lengthening the arm on my spindles reduce the feed back through the steering wheel? The drag link mount at the spindle looked to be the same distance as mine so I think having the tie rod bar mount back farther must counter act the leverage of the tires when going over an obstacle.Does this make sense?I want to reduce the feedback in the steering wheel so when it does jerk back it won't rip off somebodys thumb.

09-17-2009, 09:04 PM	#3
scottyb Happy Carting Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 73,408	Re: Steering modification questions Excellent info Rodger I was thinking about lengthening the ackerman arms on my spindles to facilitate a sharper turn. My tie rods are hitting the shock. ... but I understand now that that will slow the response, which I am not will to do. Thanks again

09-18-2009, 12:45 AM	#4
jackel440 Gone Wild Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Galveston,IN Posts: 386	Re: Steering modification questions Roger, Thanks for the great info. I want to clear up a few details i tried to give.I jacked up the front end on my TD and the tie rod ends and the drag link are in good service able condition.My toe Looks good,but I have not checked it with a tape yet.My TD has a solid axle mounted on leaf springs just the same way a farm truck would be. The truck drives straight and handles very well on smooth surfaces.What I am getting into is when I am driving over say a #2 stone or bumpy ground with one tire and not the other I get some serious feedback through the steering wheel.I was backing up yesterday while turning and I ran over a large stone or something and it jerked the wheel out of my hand and made atleast one revolution. I was comparing the cushman flat bed at work tonight ,and drove it over some really rough ground and I got zero feedback unlike My TD.I also noticed the Ackerman arms are longer.Yes I did notice it seemed to take more turning of the steering wheel to turn the truck than it does mine maybe,not sure though?I took some pics of the front end of the cushman here is a link. I will post some pics of the front of my TD tomorrow. I just want to reduce the feed back through the steering wheel when I am driving it over rougher ground.

09-20-2009, 12:06 AM	#5
jackel440 Gone Wild Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Galveston,IN Posts: 386	Re: Steering modification questions I was looking at a TD at work today and noticed that my shackles on the front springs have been inverted.I guess you could say it has a shackle lift on the front. Instead of the shackles going down from the spring to the mount.Mine are going up to the frame.I dont think this has much affect on the steering issue just an observation. I might have a little slop in the drag link end at the knuckle.I was messing around with it yesterday and noticed a little movement there.I will have to get it up in the air and check it out better.

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09-17-2009, 08:53 PM	#2
Rodger's Rides Totally Bonkers! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Full time RVing Posts: 1,897	Re: Steering modification questions Steering "feed back" usually comes as a result of not enough caster set into the front end settings. Now if your are talking about the TD sort of wants to decide on iys own as to which direction it is going, I would look at too much "TOE OUT". If the steering wheel wants to snap back to center when driving into a turn, your acker man arms may be of the wrong length or angle. The shorter the ackerman arms are the quicker the front wheels will want to turn. Incorrect angle and the tire on the inside ( of the turn) could decide to turn 90 degrees and the tire on the outside could be almost straight. You also may have some excessive wear allowing the front steering to react as it pleases instead of what it is being directed to do via the steering wheel. Too much positive camber will cause the cart to want to pull in that direction. Setting up the geometery on the front end of any vechile is a bit tricky unless you have some training and experience on a "Front end alignment" machine.