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Old 11-12-2013, 05:30 PM   #1
KactusKiller
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Default Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

I know there are alot of factors like weight, surface conditions, etc. but all things being equal will a 12-18hp motor drastically reduce the run time over say an 8.5hp motor?

The reason I ask is that alot of the commercial hunting carts seem to use higher HP motors in their carts. I have one and it is not any faster than my ezgo with an 8.5 hp high torque motor and my ezgo has alot more torque.

Is there a benefit to using a 12-18hp motor over say the 8.5 hp? both units are 48 vlt with the same battery pack. The 4x4 hunting buggy is heavier by probably 300-400# for reference. I am trying to decide if I should either A, get a replacement motor for this cart like the one I have in my ezgo or B send it off to plumquick to get it upgraded? Because of the weight the Titan 4x4 buggy has horrible run time and the rear motor doesn't seem to handle the cart very well. The motor on the titan is a Sepex style and my ezgo is a series.

Thanks for any input you may have.
Thanks for any input you have.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:42 PM   #2
sportcoupe
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

Call D&D. Motor rpm, intended use and expected speed is more important then horsepower rating.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

I have talked to D&D, just curious what the masses at BGW have to say.

If a lower horse power will easily power a cart then why would anyone ever use a bigger hp motor? Especially if the higher hp motor uses more current.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

I have had at least a few custom motors from D&D. Every time talking to either Eric or Vic we discussed cart use, battery voltage, tires, controller type (series or sepex) and what I needed it to do. Never did they talk or brag about what HP they sell, all talk was about what was possible and best for the cart and it's batteries without killing the new motor.

One series motor I ordered for a 72v camo cart dyno'd at 30 HP, that cart did 21 mph on 26" tires. Another sepex motor I ordered only dyno'd around 8 HP but that cart does 36 mph on 18" tires.

I consider D&D the "experts", anything you get here might be good or bad.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:26 AM   #5
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

Eric is who I talked to. He gave me info about their motors but a as reluctant to talk about another companies motor, understandably so. I'm trying to find out if a change in motor will benefit me.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

The formula for Horsepower is: Torque * RPM / 5252
Therefore a motor that spins quickly with low torque and a motor that spins slowly at high torque can have the same HP.
Which in turn means that a motor's HP rating alone isn't worth diddly squat for determining cart speed or range (run-time).
HP ratings are often used in sales brochures, but were the rubber meets the road, the amount of Torque at what RPM are what matters.

Series and Sepex motors are different animals since the turns ration between the Stator (Field) windings and Armature windings determine if it is a "Torque" motor or a "Speed" motor and the same current flows the both stator and armature in a series motor while the current flow in the field and armature in a sepex motor are controller separately, hence the name Sepex (Separately Excited).

Basically, the effective turns ration can be manipulated electrically in a sepex motor, leaning it towards torque motor characteristics at certain RPM and load conditions and towards a speed motor at other RPM and loading conditions. This is called "Field Mapping".

On the other hand, the turns ratio of a series motor is physically and electrically fixed, so it is always a speed motor or a torque motor, or something in between, regardless of the RPM or load conditions it is operating under.

------------
For range, you want efficiency and for efficiency you want a torque curve that matches the RPM the motor will be turning when the cart is cruising at the desired speed.

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FWIW: Going from a DCX400 running a stock PDS (Sepex) motor at 42V to a DCX500 running a 11.8HP D&D motor at 42V, I lost about 2% in range (34.4 miles vs 35.3 miles), but gained a lot of low end torque while maintaining about the same top speed (28 MPH).
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

HP is just a number. As just stated it is all for sales. It just so one can say "We have a bigger motor, So our is better" Its basically the same thign for cars. I could care less if a 2.2l 4 cyl eng makes 500 hp. If it only make 150 tq, I am not intrested. I want torque. Torque gets you moving and at what rate.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

Another perspective is that a motor will only "ask for" the amps required to perform a certain task. JohnnyB already mentioned the efficiency curves, but in general, if you are climbing huge steep hills, it takes a certain amount of horsepower to perform that task. Ignoring efficiency, you will burn up the same number of amp hours to complete that task.

If our machines (buggies) did the same task every day, without change, we could optimize the efficiency of the driver (motor). Since most of us - especially hunting buggies - do uphill, downhill, fast, slow, heavy load, single passenger, it's difficult to find the "best" motor.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

Just clarify, what effect will a higher horsepower motor, say a 12hp over an 8.5 high torque motor have as it relates to drive time? If it will greatly reduce your run time why would you go with a higher HP motor?

Also the current motor is listed at 2.5 hp and 65# of torque at 2255rpm. Is this considered high torque?
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:48 AM   #10
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Default Re: Motor HP as it relates to drive distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KactusKiller View Post
1. Just clarify, what effect will a higher horsepower motor, say a 12hp over an 8.5 high torque motor have as it relates to drive time?

2. If it will greatly reduce your run time why would you go with a higher HP motor?

3. Also the current motor is listed at 2.5 hp and 65# of torque at 2255rpm. Is this considered high torque?
1. HP is not a good yardstick for comparing motors unless the HP ratings are known to be at the same RPM.
If both HP ratings are at the same RPM, then the difference is the amount of torque at that RPM and the higher torque motor will have a greater amp flow. The respective efficiencies of the motors must also be taken into consideration.

2. Everything about cart performance is a compromise, so it depends on what you want from the cart. Ability to rapidly accelerate from a standstill, ability to climb steep hills, ability to pull heavy loads, ability to reach high speeds, ability to travel great distances, Etc. Some people sacrifice speed for torque, other sacrifice torque for speed, while others sacrifice speed and torque for range (run-time).

3. If a motor was generating 2.5HP at 2255RPM, the torque would be 5.8 lb/ft.
A motor producing 65 lb/ft of torque at 2255RPM is generating 27.9HP, and would be drawing 433A at 48V if it is a sepex motor and 100% efficient.
I believe that would most definitely be considered a high torque motor.
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