brake shoes don't brake

[LJ12530]

2006 DS.......brakes would not stop the cart. Brakes were engaging but minimal friction between the shoes/drum. It took quite a distance to stop the cart even with both feet on the brake pedal. Replaced the shoes and everything is normal. Previous to replacement I had removed the glaze with some fine grit sandpaper, but that did not make a difference.

Has anyone seen a similar problem? Any idea why the problem developed.....bad shoes.....etc?

[Epb]

Did u ever adjustthe older brakes?

[Golf cart guy]

Its all in the brake adjustment.
And don't follow any of the videos online-they are all wrong

[HBR]

It has been my experience that not all brake shoes are created equal. I have had a set that barely slowed the cart down. Swapped them out with a different brand and the brakes worked properly.

That cart has self adjusting brakes.

[sho305]

A few times I have had that, it was either the lever in there was half froze up, the adjustment was way off, or the shoes/drum were full of dirt and glazed. On any kind of dirt/gravel/grass I can lock up my 22s with mine after going through them. I think I still have the new shoes I did not need to put on. I got it all working freely, clean shoes and drum, adjust, no issues. All the parts have to work freely or you don't get the full braking power. I've never had shoes that would not grab, but it could be possible. You could try holding the brakes on and heating them, see if that helps. I've had to do that with automobiles before, of course its much easier to do with those.

[meimk]

Originally Posted by Golf cart guy

Its all in the brake adjustment.
And don't follow any of the videos online-they are all wrong

It is indeed the adjustment.
As the shoes wear they can get to the point that only a very small patch along one end of each shoe actually makes contact. Pedal goes hard, but very little braking effect. Many times people replace perfectly good brake shoes. The new ones work better - because the lining is thicker and they were probably adjusted correctly as they were installed. Even the carts with "self adjuster" mechanisms rarely actually self adjust as they should.

[HBR]

The poor and good shoes were both new.

What additional adjustment can you do on the self adjusting brakes?

[Golf cart guy]

Ive worked on carts that both feet, standing on the brake pedal and the cart will barely stop. Ive gone in and adjusted the brakes correctly and the cart will stop on a dime.
If you have a hard brake pedal but doesn't stop, issue is adjustment. I haven't seen the good/bad brake pad thing, but I'm sure its possible. I know the local par car dealer would tell people they needed "a special brake compound" but never saw a need for it

[sho305]

You need most of the shoe to touch the drum, if it has an adjuster that is way off only one end of the shoe will hit. Sometimes they can get worn all at one end and its hard to make them work right again.

Reminds me of one of the first old cars I had an early 70s. I did the brakes all the way around, drums all around, and manual brakes no power on this. I could drive down the road at 60 and hit the pedal kind of hard but way short of a panic stop....and all four wheels would lock up just like that. It could have had bias ply tires I don't recall.

[LJ12530]

Thx for all the responses.
I made sure the slider was free and the shoes could be moved up and down on the back plate prior to, and after, replacing the shoes. Simply replacing the shoes fixed the problem, but I can see that there could be another issue involving the self-adjuster.
I did note that both self-adjusters were in the "minimum" adjustment position, both before and after I replaced the shoes. So presuming the adjusters are not adjusting it could be that the shoes wear down just enough so that they reach a point where pressing the brake pedal hard would still only result in a minimal contact between the shoe and drum....hence poor braking. Eliminating the shoes themselves as the cause how would you answer these questions.

1. Why would both self-adjusters stop working properly at the same time?(note....you could ask the same question about why all of the shoes would stop working at the same time.)

2. The only test of the self-adjuster I can think of would be to just make sure the screw in the ratchet wheel assembly moves freely. On the DS in question there is no access to the adjuster when the drum is in place. On Precedents you can adjust the shoes from the back of the brake plate with the drum in place. How do you adjust the self-adjusting brake assembly on a DS to minimize the shoe/drum gap after the drum is on?

3. What failure mode would keep the self-adjuster from working properly? I guess if the adjusting lever(s) were missing or the screw was "frozen" in the adjuster that would explain all of the symptoms.

4. Would it make sense to remove the wheels/drums and work the brakes with no drum to see if in fact they are adjusting outward?

thx again for your responses !!!