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Old 06-27-2010, 11:55 AM   #11
jiminpa
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Default Re: Generator 101

It should not matter where any of the switches are set. If you jump the big red wire from the bat + across the solenoid to the white wire that goes to the generator (F2 on generator), the generator should motor. If it does not, you have a problem in the generator, or with a connection that may not be tight enough to carry the amperage needed to run the generator. To eliminate possible connection problems, connect your jumper cables + to F2 on generator, - to A1 on the generator. It should motor. If the short lead between F1 and A2 on the generator is OK and tight, and the generator still does not motor, it has a problem.

If it is the generator, did you try to turn the pulley by hand to try to get a different spot for the brushes inside the generator to connect to? If you do this and then all of a sudden all seems well with the world, it is not, you probably have a bad wire in the commutator in the generator, you will need to get it rebuilt or again, one day soon, it will stop on the bad spot and will not start for you until you turn the pulley by hand an inch or so.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: Battery to solenoid voltages (2002 CC Gas)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Land Owner View Post
I even turned the generator belt a twirl or two.
I connected jumper cables directly to the GENERATOR poles A1 (-) and F2 (+). NOTHING.

Taking it out should not be difficult. Getting brushes or parts that I can fix might be more difficult.

Would bad brushes be the cause of this? Can the local auto parts store double check a cart generator?
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: Generator 101

I would find a rebuilder, you are near Titus so it would not be hard to find one.
Ask a redneck shop owner to recommend one.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: Generator 101

BRUSHES

I don't have new brushes on hand, so taking out the old ones right now is not an options with the retainer springs the way they are configured.

I can not see any "wear" line on a brush, but there is an asbestos "gasket" between the outer generator housing and the brush that appears to be a "constant" or bench mark against which the following measurements were noted:

All brushes are BELOW the bench mark by the following amounts (see photos):
7/128" (0.0540")
13/128" (0.1013")
11/128" (0.0810")
26/128" (0.2025")

Looks as if the "easy" brushes were changed in the past and the one beneath the mounts never was, as its wear is twice the others.



HELP: What is that "black smoke" that comes out of the generator when blowing it down with compressed air??? I was in the entrance of a 12' x 10' wide garage door, very well ventilated (so I thought), on a calm afternoon here, and took a snoot full on the first shot of shop air. My lungs closed up on me and I can't stop coughing!! That stuff STINKS too!!!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf GENERATOR.pdf (327.1 KB, 74 views)
File Type: pdf BRUSH[1].pdf (124.7 KB, 58 views)
File Type: pdf BRUSH[2a].pdf (117.4 KB, 41 views)
File Type: pdf BRUSH[3].pdf (117.4 KB, 28 views)
File Type: pdf BRUSH[4].pdf (75.2 KB, 25 views)
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: Generator 101

it's asbestos....just kidding, it's carbon from the brushes
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: Generator 101

yes a automotive shop can check a unit for you. i just picked up a set of brushes a couple weeks ago from my local cc dealer. think they were about 20 or so. this cured a problem i was having as sometimes my cart would not start. was money well spent imho

-Aaron
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Generator 101

it is unlikely that those brushes are worn so much that they are not making contact at all. What you are describing sounds more like a broken wire some place inside the generator. It could be as easy as a broken lead on one of the brushes, that is something you could solder yourself. Also, look on the inside of where the studs go through the case for the connections, if one of those studs turn more then a little bit when you are taking the nut off or tighten the nut on the outside that holds the cables on, you can twist the wire off the inside connection. That is also a likely problem. If things are shorted out or the brushes are in bad shape, you will get sparks or stink, or something when you put that jumper on it. You did make sure that the short lead between F1 & A2 is tight right? It showed no symptoms prior to quitting right?
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Generator 101

I should have posted this earlier, but, you can still use it. It talks about using a ohms meter, if you don't have one, you can use a simple test light, the kind with a battery and a bulb, if the circuit is complete, it lights, if not, it stays dark. heck, you can even make one with a wire, a bulb, and a batt. You can not use them on electronic stuff, but, for something like a generator, they work fine.

this will at least give you an idea where to look in the generator for the broken wire.

this from a service manual excerpt someone else originally posted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3. Disconnect the wires from all the terminals on the starter/generator. Then place the black (-) probe of a
multimeter, set to ohms (Ω), on the starter/generator housing (scratch through the paint to insure a
good ground). While holding the black probe against the housing, place the red (+) probe (one at a
time) on the A1, A2, F1, F2 and DF terminals respectively (Figure 12-25, Page 100). The readings
should be no continuity. If the readings are incorrect, the starter/generator will need to be removed
from the vehicle and disassembled by a qualified technician (See Removal of the Starter/Generator,
Page 107).
An incorrect reading from A1 or A2 terminal indicates three possible problems: 1) a grounded A1 or A2
terminal, 2) a grounded wire in the brush area, or 3) a grounded armature/commutator.
If the F1 or F2 reading is incorrect, it indicates a possible grounded F1 or F2 terminal or a grounded
field coil.
If the DF reading is incorrect, it indicates a possible grounded DF terminal or a grounded field coil.
4. Disconnect the ground wire from the A2 terminal and the green wire from the A1 terminal on the
starter/generator. Using a multimeter set to ohms (Ω), place the red (+) probe on the A1 terminal and
the black (-) probe on the A2 terminal. The reading should be continuity.
If the reading is incorrect, a possible open or poor contact in a brush assembly and/or open armature
windings maybe the cause. The starter/generator will need to be removed from the vehicle and disassembled
by a qualified technician (See Removal of the Starter/Generator, Page 107).
5. Disconnect the green wire from the F1 terminal and the white wire from the F2 terminal on the starter/
generator. Using a multimeter set on ohms (Ω), place the red (+) probe on the F1 terminal and the
black (-) probe on the F2 terminal. The reading should be continuity.
If the reading is incorrect, a possible open field coil or bad connections at terminals may be the cause.
The starter/generator will need to be removed from the vehicle and disassembled by a qualified technician(See Removal of the Starter/Generator,
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:28 AM   #19
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Default Re: Generator 101

jimimpa, I had that exact instructions for metering the generator (from the other thread on this Forum) I went mining for GEN info too!

ALL of the recommended readings checked out OK. The generator was still on the cart when tested and taken off the cart only after testing was complete.

After removing the generator from the cart, being careful to not loosen any of the studs, I again applied power to the appropriate generator poles. NOTHING. The generator is dead.

At the very end, I even briefly applied power to the wrong generator poles and verified that the battery has plenty of juice in it (shower of sparks). I'll run it through the tests again with it off of the cart.

I took the photos of the brushes but do not see where to look for the "wear line". I see nothing when observing the front, side, and back of the brushes as they are installed in the generator. Taking the old brush out without a new one in hand does not seem to be a recommended option.

The brush connections to the GEN body (pigtail on attached photo) all appear intact.

Assuming the brushes are milled carbon and compressed by the spring against the COMMUTATOR (the striated smaller diameter thingy) at the top end of the ARMATURE shaft, what keeps the striations on the commutator from "eating" chunks out of the brushes?
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File Type: jpg Generator Construction.jpg (75.0 KB, 55 views)
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:16 AM   #20
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Default Re: Generator 101

if you get continuity through the A1-A2 connection, the brushes and the windings on the armature are not likely the issue since you say you are not getting any reaction at all when you connect power. something here just does not make sense. if you have properly tested and all tests are ok, the circuit should at least produce a few sparks when you connect, even if it does not spin well. what ever the case, at this point, I believe you will have to take the generator apart and look for problems inside. Just to be clear, when you tested it with the jumper cables, you did have the A2-F1 short lead in place correct?
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