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Old 12-23-2017, 11:40 AM   #1
SEHunter
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Default 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

If unrestricted by the controller, how many amps are available from a fully charged 48 volt pack of any configuration when you punch it?

I have an Alltrax SR-48600 controller. Just ordered a new torque motor and waiting for it to deliver. In discussions about controllers, I was told a 48 volt pack is only capable of delivering on average around 565 amps in one max output event and that 600, 650, 700 amp controllers have no advantage over a 500 amp controller.

Is this true, or is there more to it that would still justify benefits to the larger controls?
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:02 PM   #2
Sergio
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

The benefit of a high amp Controller on a Series cart is the ability to deliver high torque on low speed.

The relationship of "Battery Amps" vs "Motor Amps" is proportional to the Throttle position.

At 50% pedal, the Controller can deliver 600 amps to the Motor while using 300 amps from the battery pack.

That works well since Motors only require or are able to benefit from high current at low rpms.
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

the more the merrier , when you stomp on you feel the torque difference from 500 to 700 amp .
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Old 12-23-2017, 01:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
The benefit of a high amp Controller on a Series cart is the ability to deliver high torque on low speed.

The relationship of "Battery Amps" vs "Motor Amps" is proportional to the Throttle position.

At 50% pedal, the Controller can deliver 600 amps to the Motor while using 300 amps from the battery pack.

That works well since Motors only require or are able to benefit from high current at low rpms.
My understanding on this is limited. It's been said a controller can't produce power, rather it is only a valve that controls how much current the pack delivers based on throttle position.. Would you mind expanding on this part..

"At 50% pedal, the Controller can deliver 600 amps to the Motor while using 300 amps from the battery pack."
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEHunter View Post
My understanding on this is limited. It's been said a controller can't produce power, rather it is only a valve that controls how much current the pack delivers based on throttle position.. Would you mind expanding on this part..

"At 50% pedal, the Controller can deliver 600 amps to the Motor while using 300 amps from the battery pack."
You know how a capacitor is used in cars to prevent a voltage drop during a high power (low frequency) audio system demand...

That is because Capacitors react against changes in voltage and quickly discharge their stored energy during a voltage drop event.

Inductors, like a motor or solenoid/relay coils, react against changes in current similar to how a capacitor reacts against changes in voltage, they discharge their energy during the time the battery current is interrupted.

At 50% throttle, the Controller is using PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) to allow the Motor direct access to battery current for half the time.

The capacitors inside the Controller help smooth the voltage drop created when the Controller turns ON and the Motor inductance tries to keep the current flowing when Controller is OFF.

The Motor will only be able to supplement the current for a very short period, but that is OK since the Controller is ussualy turning the power ON/OFF over 16,000 times per second.

The graphs below are interesting as they show how inductive and resistive loads react to PWM control.

Look at the first and second columns on the first row, at high frequency on/off switching, the current remains almost constant when the Controller is OFF, so basically at low rpm, which translates to low voltage output to Series Motors, the Controller can multiply the battery current by the same ratio it lowers the battery Voltage to the Motor.



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Old 12-24-2017, 10:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

I see. That was a great technical post and stretches my understanding but I do understand the intent of capacitors and how they can provide a short burst of stored energy. Seems what I was initially told is somewhat true but lacks additional detail on controller capabilities. Thanks for the explanation.
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

Sergio Rocks
Continuing to educate us all on electronic gizzmology
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Old 12-24-2017, 12:17 PM   #8
dundeebarnbuggy
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

Would be great if he added a little more, explaining how this all comes together in a sepex cart.
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
Sergio Rocks
Continuing to educate us all on electronic gizzmology
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: 600-up Amp controllers necessary at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
You know how a capacitor is used in cars to prevent a voltage drop during a high power (low frequency) audio system demand...

That is because Capacitors react against changes in voltage and quickly discharge their stored energy during a voltage drop event.

Inductors, like a motor or solenoid/relay coils, react against changes in current similar to how a capacitor reacts against changes in voltage, they discharge their energy during the time the battery current is interrupted.

At 50% throttle, the Controller is using PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) to allow the Motor direct access to battery current for half the time.

The capacitors inside the Controller help smooth the voltage drop created when the Controller turns ON and the Motor inductance tries to keep the current flowing when Controller is OFF.

The Motor will only be able to supplement the current for a very short period, but that is OK since the Controller is ussualy turning the power ON/OFF over 16,000 times per second.

The graphs below are interesting as they show how inductive and resistive loads react to PWM control.

Look at the first and second columns on the first row, at high frequency on/off switching, the current remains almost constant when the Controller is OFF, so basically at low rpm, which translates to low voltage output to Series Motors, the Controller can multiply the battery current by the same ratio it lowers the battery Voltage to the Motor.



I was going to explain all this but Sergio got to it before I did.
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