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Old 10-21-2015, 03:32 PM   #1
Moose308
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Default I have some torque issues

I have recently upgraded my controller to the XCT400pds and I have to say it's an AWESOME upgrade. Now the only problem I'm having is I need more low end torque. I have one hill that is KILLING me down at my hunting camp. I'm having a very difficult time making it up it and am in need of some suggestions. I haven't yet upgraded my stock motor yet and I'm thinking that might be my weakest link but I'm not sure. The roads we have are pretty wicked and this hill is way on the backside of the property. So my thoughts are that the controller or the motor is getting a little to warm by the time I make it back there. Is there anything to that? So I guess the main thing I need to know would it be the best thing to upgrade the motor to get the low end torque I need? Oh and by the way I just ordered the fan to go on this controller to keep this guy cool.
Thanks for any and all info
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:39 PM   #2
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

What size tires are you running? Larger than stock reduces torque a lot. Torque is proportional to Motor Current. If you want more torque, you need to increase the motor current given that tire size is fixed.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:16 PM   #3
JohnnieB
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

Ironically, installing the fan will up the peak amps available to 460A if Turbo is turned on in Hunting Buggy mode.

The motor getting hot and the controller getting warm is more or less normal if they are being worked hard.

The lower the RPM, the more amps the motor can draw and the amps not converted to torque by the motor are converted to heat, so the motor will get mighty hot if the RPM is being held down by the mechanical load. Max case temperature is 239°F for a motor with Class H insulation.

The MOSFETs in the controller drop about 0.1V per 100A of current flowing through them, so it put out about the same heat as a 40W incandescent light-bulb when the motor is pulling hard, especially at low RPM.

The solenoid is an energized electromagnet, so it will warm up some.

None of the high current cables should get much more than about 10°F above ambient air temperature.

---------
Tell us more about your cart.

Battery pack voltage?
Tire Size?
Rear seat?
Screen shots of the controller settings?
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:26 PM   #4
Moose308
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

I have one cable getting warm and it's the one on the positive side going to the solenoid. Yes I have over sized tires on 14" rims. So what's my best bet to boost my low end torque? I was thinking about adding another battery at least to up it to 42 volts. Think that would help take care of the problem?
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:02 PM   #5
JohnnieB
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

Rim size doesn't matter, what is the tire height?

I ran a stock PDS motor at 42V with a DCX400 for a while and my 2008 PDS climbed the steep hills I have in my area without bogging down much going uphill, but I have tiny tires (17") which boosted the stock torque by about 6% in addition to the 33% gained by going to a 400A controller and 17% gain by going to 42V, for a net torque gain of 56% with a stock PDS motor.

The D&D motor I'm now running generates 30% more torque than a stock PDS motor and still has about the same speed.

A stock PDS setup applies about 16.6 pounds of linear force to the road for each 1 ft/lb of torque the motor generates and my setup applies 35.7pounds of linear force, so my overall torque gain is 115%, or over twice the stock torque. In a nutshell, going uphill my tires run out of traction before my cart runs out of torque.

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It depends on tire height. You may want to go to 48V instead of 42V if the tires are much over 20" tall and the hills are really steep.

-------

If the cable going to the solenoid is getting much hotter than the solenoid, it nay have a bad connection of some kind.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:42 PM   #6
Moose308
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

Ok yeah well if I remember correctly my tires measure around 23inches tall. If that's the issue I would almost sell them and get smaller. So a new motor with these tires should do the trick?
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:48 PM   #7
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

Those big wheels give you decent speed but terrible torque. You need more motor amps or smaller tires.
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:19 AM   #8
JohnnieB
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose308 View Post
Ok yeah well if I remember correctly my tires measure around 23inches tall. If that's the issue I would almost sell them and get smaller. So a new motor with these tires should do the trick?
Roughly, how steep is the hill your cart will barely climb? (Grade chart attached)

The 23" tires are reducing available torque by about 22%, but the type of tire is also a contributing factor.
Low pressure tire (IE: Less than 10 PSI max inflation pressure stamped on sidewall) take more torque to turn, so the effective torque loss is greater than just the mathematical torque loss.

A high torque motor (IE: +40% or more) and a 48V battery pack may be needed to climb really steep hills with 23" low pressure tires.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Grade conversion chart.jpg (167.3 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg EZGO - Stock Incline.jpg (94.4 KB, 0 views)
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

Ezgo Section/ XCT control I'm going to guess you are asking about a PDS cart. The fan kit went out yesterday, it should help sustain peak output longer but it will not increase max output...just sustain it. You need these few things to make a significant improvement in torque.

Smaller tires (even 22s would help)

A 7th 6v battery of equal amp hour rating mounted in the spot under the driver's seat and a 42v charger. This will increase torque by 17% with the stock motor.

A D&D 502.1 8+ hp hi-torque motor from Cartsunlimited.net

I have this combination in my 08PDS with 20" tires and I can say it has as more torque than my series cart with a 10hp motor. The control has a peak output of 470 amps. Use 2 or 4g cables throughout for the best performance.
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Old 10-22-2015, 06:10 PM   #10
Moose308
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Default Re: I have some torque issues

Ok thanks guys for all the info. Yes again Johnnyb all that went way over the top but thanks I'm getting it now. So for my next upgrade is gonna be a motor. Scottyb I already have upgraded my cables so that's not an issue. I might just be abl to swing the motor upgrade soon so I'll definately come back and let y'all know how that goes. Thanks again guys y'all are GREAT
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