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Old 05-03-2018, 10:00 AM   #11
Sergio
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

If you are using 16v, make sure you have the bucket harness negative connected to the "yellow bullet 12 ga black wire" in the battery compartment.

The "blue wire" from the bucket harness should be connected to the battery post that provides +16v from pack negative, which is battery #5 positive post (battery #1 is pack positive).

I think you already know that is not good for the batteries long term, so get that 48v->12v converter soon.
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:31 AM   #12
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

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Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
If you are using 16v, make sure you have the bucket harness negative connected to the "yellow bullet 12 ga black wire" in the battery compartment.

The "blue wire" from the bucket harness should be connected to the battery post that provides +16v from pack negative, which is battery #5 positive post (battery #1 is pack positive).

I think you already know that is not good for the batteries long term, so get that 48v->12v converter soon.
I am pretty sure that's the way it's connected - I'll have to double-check.
But more importantly, why is it not good for the batteries? I just bought a new set of T875s and want them to last me for a good, long while.
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

The problem comes during the "charging" cycle.

Since the batteries are connected in series, the charger sees and charges the entire pack as a single 48v unit.

As the charger profile waits for the pack to reach a certain cutoff voltage, the two batteries that were discharged more will take a little longer to reach the "average" per battery full charge voltage.

The other batteries that already had more charge will get there first and then exceed that voltage while the other two climb in voltage.

Depending how good the other batteries are, they may overcharge and compensate for the other two batteries low voltage, which will satisfy the charger cutoff voltage and the charging cycle will terminate.

So at the end You will either "cook" the good batteries, or leave the other two with less charge.

This vicious cycle will continue until the good batteries are damaged from overcharging.

If You only use it a little bit, perhaps the regular "overcharge" built in into the Lead Acid charging algorithm will be enough to re-balance the pack, but it only takes one time of forgetting the lights ON to put the pack in a unbalanced and uncorrectable state.
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

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Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
The problem comes during the "charging" cycle.

Since the batteries are connected in series, the charger sees and charges the entire pack as a single 48v unit.

As the charger profile waits for the pack to reach a certain cutoff voltage, the two batteries that were discharged more will take a little longer to reach the "average" per battery full charge voltage.

The other batteries that already had more charge will get there first and then exceed that voltage while the other two climb in voltage.

Depending how good the other batteries are, they may overcharge and compensate for the other two batteries low voltage, which will satisfy the charger cutoff voltage and the charging cycle will terminate.

So at the end You will either "cook" the good batteries, or leave the other two with less charge.

This vicious cycle will continue until the good batteries are damaged from overcharging.

If You only use it a little bit, perhaps the regular "overcharge" built in into the Lead Acid charging algorithm will be enough to re-balance the pack, but it only takes one time of forgetting the lights ON to put the pack in a unbalanced and uncorrectable state.

I never even thought of that. That's scary enough that it just made me order a voltage reducer!!!
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Old 05-03-2018, 05:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

Hi Sergio,

I just checked my cart and this is what I found...

I cannot hear or feel the relay click when turning the key on.

+ of harness is connected to + of #6 battery
- of harness is connected to - of #5 battery

With the - probe of my voltmeter on the - of #5 battery, I am getting no voltage on any of the terminals of the timer - with or without the key on.

With the - probe of my voltmeter on the - of #1 battery, I am getting 33.67v on #1 and #3 terminals - with or without the key on.

I am so lost when it comes to electrical stuff...
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Old 05-03-2018, 05:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

Good thing the relay did not click or you could have fried the brake circuit.

Please note Battery #1 is the pack positive battery.

Important, Disconnect both of those bucket harness wires from the batteries.

The black negative wire from the bucket harness has to connect to the existing 12ga black wire with a yellow bullet connector (near the Electronics heat sink inside the battery bucket).

The blue positive wire from the bucket harness has to connect to battery #5 positive battery post. That is the front battery on the driver's side.

Please note that battery #5 positive post is connected to battery #4 negative post (electrically the same), if there is an existing quick connector on that battery, that is fine for the blue wire positive to connect there as well.
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

Thanks, Sergio. I have a feeling that I am counting the batteries wrong. Attached is another drawing showing the way the harness is connected and the (incorrect) way I was counting the batteries. Is this connection still wrong?
Thanks again!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf battery configuration.pdf (299.5 KB, 0 views)
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

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Originally Posted by jonr3 View Post
Thanks, Sergio. I have a feeling that I am counting the batteries wrong. Attached is another drawing showing the way the harness is connected and the (incorrect) way I was counting the batteries. Is this connection still wrong?
Thanks again!
Yep, you need to count the batteries in the reverse order you have.

The pack negative battery is battery #6.

Edit: that pigtail wire on the pack negative battery it's okay for the bucket harness negative wire.

Last edited by Sergio; 05-03-2018 at 06:33 PM.. Reason: More info
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

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Yep, you need to count the batteries in the reverse order you have.
The pack negative battery is battery #6.
Edit: that pigtail wire on the pack negative battery it's okay for the bucket harness negative wire.
Just to make sure I understand this correctly, is the attached revised drawing what I should do? And again, THANKS for all your help!
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File Type: pdf battery configuration2.pdf (300.5 KB, 0 views)
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Old 05-03-2018, 07:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: Troubleshooting no brake lights - 2014 CCP

That is it #5 is the positive and #6 the negative.
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