Remember the days when initial Lithium packs....

[DaveTM]

I was just thinking about "back in the day" (Like 2018 ) when if you wanted a lithium pack it was a DIY thing?

Today it's far better\easier and cost wise not a significant difference in buying a "drop 'n drive" lithium pack.

I will say that my build process way back then taught me a lot about electrical current.....stuff I never knew before.

Just thinking outlaid!!!

[augiedoggy]

Originally Posted by DaveTM

I was just thinking about "back in the day" (Like 2018 ) when if you wanted a lithium pack it was a DIY thing?

Today it's far better\easier and cost wise not a significant difference in buying a "drop 'n drive" lithium pack.

I will say that my build process way back then taught me a lot about electrical current.....stuff I never knew before.

Just thinking outlaid!!!

What do you consider significant?

Right now, you can build a 48v 112ah leaf pack with the bms for under $700...

I still cant find a48v 100ah pack capable of even 120amps output for even double that amount most that size are 3 times the cost.

I aree the options have exploded with far more choices and knowledge base out there now.

[Volt_Ampere]

But finding decent Leaf modules is getting next to impossible. They will all be old and well used! I built two Leaf carts - still use them daily and they are great but these modules were easy to find back in 2016 or so.

[augiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Volt_Ampere

But finding decent Leaf modules is getting next to impossible. They will all be old and well used! I built two Leaf carts - still use them daily and they are great but these modules were easy to find back in 2016 or so.

Maybe I dont know as I havent personally bought any recently or at all for that matter but the for-mentioned modules are Gen 3 modules from I believe a 2018 or newer leaf. I still see low use EV modules advertised all the time on the battery hookup or jag35. sometimes they are untested for capacity and not listed as low use ive purchased those too and had good luck myself.. the bmw i3 SDI packs I have in my cart now are from 2014 so 10 years old and though I havent fully cycled them yet the little bit of road use I have tested them with shows promise as they only discharged about 7% after quite a bit of running around that day mostly at wot.

I posted a link to low usage relion insight 30ah 48v batteries that fit in stock 8v spaces and deliver 100amps continuous each for $250 each yesterday... they had 145 of them and they were gone by this morning

[TheCartBoy]

I think for the average user, the fact they can buy a lithium pack with a proper BMS for reasonable prices now is fantastic.

Many of the DIYs from 5+ years ago didn't have a BMS or an inadequate one that couldn't properly disconnect the cells, and fires would happen. People also didn't believe they needed a BMS which was the worst thing...

Pretty much all of the off the shelf aftermarket batteries are lifepo4 too which is a good thing in terms of fire risk. Less energy density, but that really isn't a problem for most golf cart users. Heck, even GM ultium platform has moved from NMC to lifepo4.

Edit: not the ultium platform, just some GM models. I guess the ones most associated with fires, the Chevy bolt!
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/10...battery-cells/

[augiedoggy]

Originally Posted by TheCartBoy

I think for the average user, the fact they can buy a lithium pack with a proper BMS for reasonable prices now is fantastic.

Many of the DIYs from 5+ years ago didn't have a BMS or an inadequate one that couldn't properly disconnect the cells, and fires would happen. People also didn't believe they needed a BMS which was the worst thing...

Pretty much all of the off the shelf aftermarket batteries are lifepo4 too which is a good thing in terms of fire risk. Less energy density, but that really isn't a problem for most golf cart users. Heck, even GM ultium platform has moved from NMC to lifepo4.

Edit: not the ultium platform, just some GM models. I guess the ones most associated with fires, the Chevy bolt!
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/10...battery-cells/

Musk has also stated he would like to shift away from NMC in an interview I saw a year or 2 ago.

[Pat911]

Some lower range (distance, not spec) Teslas already use LiFePO4 I believe.

[augiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Pat911

Some lower range (distance, not spec) Teslas already use LiFePO4 I believe.

correct.

[Volt_Ampere]

The reason Tesla uses LiFePO4 is they are cheaper and available. They are using all the NMC that they can build. Some new Teslas use Chinese LiFePO4 - and they don't qualify for the rebate for that reason. Mine is NMC as are all of the Cyber Trucks and most US made Teslas. Tesla factories build NMC (Panasonic design)
Most EV batteries are not that convenient to split apart for Golf cart use. For NMC, you want 14S. For LiFePO4, you want 16S. I was able to find two 7S NMC Leaf packs of newer generation but the problem is that you only get a couple of those out of a salvaged pack where as in the old days, you got 48 2S modules out of a pack. Those are much more convenient for our use and that is what I got back in 2016 when I built my first Lithium pack. They were relatively new out of a crashed car. Many available today are take outs from cars that were getting poor range. New NMC is virtually impossible to find.
IMO, NMC is a better chemistry for EV's.

[augiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Volt_Ampere

The reason Tesla uses LiFePO4 is they are cheaper and available. They are using all the NMC that they can build. Some new Teslas use Chinese LiFePO4 - and they don't qualify for the rebate for that reason. Mine is NMC as are all of the Cyber Trucks and most US made Teslas. Tesla factories build NMC (Panasonic design)
Most EV batteries are not that convenient to split apart for Golf cart use. For NMC, you want 14S. For LiFePO4, you want 16S. I was able to find two 7S NMC Leaf packs of newer generation but the problem is that you only get a couple of those out of a salvaged pack where as in the old days, you got 48 2S modules out of a pack. Those are much more convenient for our use and that is what I got back in 2016 when I built my first Lithium pack. They were relatively new out of a crashed car. Many available today are take outs from cars that were getting poor range. New NMC is virtually impossible to find.
IMO, NMC is a better chemistry for EV's.

Im not disagreeing with a lot of your points but that is not the reasons he gave in the interview as I remember.

As far as the 14s packs yeah most of the pre assembled ev packs I see are like 8s or 12s packs which is a large inconvienience if your stuck on using a specific voltage (most aftermarket controllers and many lithium chargers have the ability to adjust the voltage so its really not a big deal to make a 52v or 58v pack and choose a 48v or 60v solenoid accordingly. an alltrax works with up to 62v so a 15s pack would work fine if the cells were charged to say 4.1v each. The motor would only benefit on some setups with slightly higher voltage but it does depend on the type of motor.

There are still quite a few ev cells taken from wrecked evs or otherwise (think government waste replacements with low use)

I made 2 19s packs myself for a 72v setup (I charged to 79v to balance) but I have made a 14s pack by just disconnecting 1 cells from one of these fiat packs.and wiring 3 of these in a series. I do like that the temp probes and bms wires are already attached.
https://jag35.com/products/fiat-500e...-samsung-cells.
I got over 3 times the range on my riding lawnmower with this 64ah pack vs the 75ah AGM's that all load tested fine and were individually charged to balance. so total cost of $430 for a precompressed 14s pack with a 200amp continuous bms adjusted for the 180amp continuous output cells.

There are good deals for someone who hasnt commited to buying the upgraded controller and solenoid yet. (and many do upgrade these things when jumping to lithium anyway)
this unused, uncycled, tested battery backup has 24 68ah high output SDI cells inside. A person wanting to upgrade a 36v cart on the cheap can build a 44.4v 136ah pack for like $500 here with the cost of shipping and a bms. they can make it much easier and use the preassembled 8s packs inside to build a 68ah 60v setup as an alternative.
https://batteryhookup.com/products/s...-3x-8s-modules