Moke Batterie's Lithium - Post any lithium experience here

[thesarasotajade]

Originally Posted by Pat911

Definitely replace the cables and see how you go. The problem with cheaper batteries is that the cables they use internally may be too small and it are those cables that are heating up and passing that heat through the terminal to your other cables. Larger cables will help draw that heat away.

I don’t know of any commercially made 60v lithium batteries but you don’t have to get one made in China, you can build one yourself by simply sourcing 20 appropriate LiFePO4 cells and an appropriate BMS.

Hmmm may need to look into building one my self, I’ll have to see if any manufacturers mainland have them only thing would be a box to house them in but I assume there are assortment of sizes of boxes available . Another project having to learn all the bells and whistles, was hoping sooner than later 🤔😵*💫🤓

Hopefully I can get some life out of these 12v that I already have and build one for another moke we have to see if get better results.

Anyone know if the ENPOWER controllers can actually handle lithium batteries to their max?

Anyone have experience with or know of any good lithium chargers that can handle 60v ?

I have made some small changes in the program to match these batteries better.

[thesarasotajade]

Originally Posted by Pat911

Definitely replace the cables and see how you go. The problem with cheaper batteries is that the cables they use internally may be too small and it are those cables that are heating up and passing that heat through the terminal to your other cables. Larger cables will help draw that heat away.

I don’t know of any commercially made 60v lithium batteries but you don’t have to get one made in China, you can build one yourself by simply sourcing 20 appropriate LiFePO4 cells and an appropriate BMS.

The cables I actually got was unfortunately the same size I thought they were 4g in it stock and went to 2g but after pulling them out and removing the sleeve they seem to be 2g as well. New 2g purchased from West Marine hoping they will be better if made for marine life and higher grade terminal connectors.

I really don’t want to go to 1g

[thesarasotajade]

Originally Posted by Moke

Are you talking about the (optional) upgraded charger available from Moke (attached photo)?

If so, mine is not compatible with lithium and I'd be a bit cheesed off at those people if yours is.

That’s same eagle performance I have.

I was assuming it would work with lithium having the algorithm options in it. I could be wrong and that’s why it’s not fully charging and only getting up to 66.4v at full charge vs 71 or 72v

[Pat911]

There’s nothing special about a lithium charger. ANY power supply with adjustable voltage and current limit can be used. A 71v constant voltage current limited power supply is what you need. The current limit will determine how fast you can charge. Your Ah’s divided by the charge current will give a very good indication of how long a full charge will take.

[Moke]

Originally Posted by thesarasotajade

In the app when you go to change the algorithms go to “other” it does have options for lithium but most of them say 48v some do not say what voltage. I tried to get with customer service and they did not want to answer the question whether it could or not due to have batteries in series, which was odd.

I talked with one of their engineers who confirmed that the charger I have (pictured above) will not safely work with lithium regardless of what the app says. I asked that same question. The app supports multiple models and it has toggles that don't apply to all chargers. They do have a new version of this charger coming out that will charge lithium but, as of ~2 months ago, it wasn't shipping yet.

https://www.dualpro.com/eagleperformanceseries

Go to the section under Product Marketing Flyers for the pdf showing their new chargers and gauges
- Golf Cart & & LSV options.



This goes into some detail on why you would want a charger specifically designed for lithium. The Eagle charger in the Moke does not have a mode that will give a full charge to lithium and it will damage the batteries over time (according to mfr).

https://enerdrive.com.au/2017/11/29/...0full%20charge.

[thesarasotajade]

Originally Posted by Moke

I talked with one of their engineers who confirmed that the charger I have (pictured above) will not safely work with lithium regardless of what the app says. I asked that same question. The app supports multiple models and it has toggles that don't apply to all chargers. They do have a new version of this charger coming out that will charge lithium but, as of ~2 months ago, it wasn't shipping yet.

https://www.dualpro.com/eagleperformanceseries

Go to the section under Product Marketing Flyers for the pdf showing their new chargers and gauges
- Golf Cart & & LSV options.



This goes into some detail on why you would want a charger specifically designed for lithium. The Eagle charger in the Moke does not have a mode that will give a full charge to lithium and it will damage the batteries over time (according to mfr).

https://enerdrive.com.au/2017/11/29/...0full%20charge.

Great info thanks for clarifying that and finding reliable information. I spoke with some people at ENPOWER as well and they said new controller MC336 A850 should do the trick for controller and charger still looking for a good replacement. Not needed but could be a better upgrade.

[thesarasotajade]

Update:

Changed most of the wires to better grade 2g wire and reduced F9 Rator Time-constant 1(0 - 10000 ) to 600 vs 800 to help reduce amount of amps used basically takes a tad longer to get up to speed not too much a difference but enough. This reduced the heat little to none.
Also adjusted torque and some other functions because Moke was lighter with less batteries and was little jerky at take off almost spinning tires.

Need better charger 60v lithium and possible upgraded controller.
Balancing the 12v is going to be a pain might install easy access wires to do so.

I did add a nitrous switch ;) (Low speed and High speed switch). Just encase scenario needs more speed for short amount of time will go up to 35mph maybe little more, but speeds this high or more for long periods will start to overheat the wires with these lithium. Basically switch off for low speed, will not run faster than 25-27mph, switch on high speed will go 35mph+ 👍🥃.

Only thing now is adjusting the timing on gauge and low speed mode to give enough time to get back from somewhere and warning to not be completely stuck somewhere.

Strange thing does happen when the batteries do go dead I’m assuming the Bms is activating it goes from full throttle to nothing and volts end up showing around 30v vs let’s say 54v for dead battery - seems bms on a battery is cutting off half the pack. Not sure if a bad battery causing this vs getting down to low voltage or if is normal with batteries in series. Batteries where balanced when first installed only three full charged on them so far.

[Pat911]

When the first battery gets too low it will shut down and on its own will show 0v, but when connected in series it will normally show the remaining voltage on the other still enabled batteries, but negative. That voltage is not coming from the battery itself but from the other batteries. Even though you see 30v, there is no continuous electrical connection to be able to run the cart as one battery is effectively open circuit.

No matter how well you balance, one will always shut off first.

As for charging, if you want a maintenance free solution, get the Noco GENpro 10x4 as well as a 10x1. It won’t be cheap but it’s a set and forget solution that will charge each of the five batteries individually with 10A, ensuring each one is fully charged when done. You won’t have any balancing issues with this configuration.

I don’t understand the timing on gauge comment. Get a shunt based SOC meter and have an accurate percentage of remaining SOC.

[thesarasotajade]

Originally Posted by Pat911

When the first battery gets too low it will shut down and on its own will show 0v, but when connected in series it will normally show the remaining voltage on the other still enabled batteries, but negative. That voltage is not coming from the battery itself but from the other batteries. Even though you see 30v, there is no continuous electrical connection to be able to run the cart as one battery is effectively open circuit.

No matter how well you balance, one will always shut off first.

As for charging, if you want a maintenance free solution, get the Noco GENpro 10x4 as well as a 10x1. It won’t be cheap but it’s a set and forget solution that will charge each of the five batteries individually with 10A, ensuring each one is fully charged when done. You won’t have any balancing issues with this configuration.

I don’t understand the timing on gauge comment. Get a shunt based SOC meter and have an accurate percentage of remaining SOC.

I got the Renogy 500A Battery Monitor with Shunt set it up per instructions and cart seems to die with 20% left on the monitor (gauge) so I am trying to set it up to where it will show 0% right before it dies. I’m hoping to reset it next time back at 0% with about 1mile left over as a reserve on the monitor. Also set it up in controller for it to go into limp mode at the least with 3-4 miles left to drive. And figure out what volts it’s actually cutting off at (Was calling that, setting up the timing on it, probably not technically correct)

I need it somewhat predictable and dummiefied for users!

I’m going to look into the Noco 10amp x4

[Pat911]

So you’ve set the Renogy up for the capacity of your batteries, 125Ah? It may be set for around 150Ah.

If you have, and the meter still shows 20% when the cart dies then the batteries aren’t really 125Ah, but 20% less at only 100Ah. That’s quite common with cheaper lithium batteries, the manufacturer over specifying the specs.

Either way, whatever the capacity is set to now, just set it to 80% of that value to get an accurate gauge.

Oh, and make sure ALL current passes through the shunt. Nothing should bypass it and connect directly to the negative terminal.