1988 244cc 2PG Starting Issue

[ryanjap33]

Hello,

I recently performed a top end rebuild of my 244 cc Robin 2pg along with replacing the crank seals, carb, fuel lines/filter and fuel pump. Initially after the rebuild and part replacement, the cart did run (better in reverse than forwards) but after about ten minutes of run time it just died and hasnt't fired since.

The engine still has between 140 and 145 psi of compression in both forwards and reverse consistently, but my 2pg will still not fire.

I do not believe there is an issue with the muffler because even when it's not connected the engine will not start. Also, when the muffler is connected the compression from the engine moves air out of the muffler tail pipe.

I believe the fuel pump is working properly cause when I remove the fuel line I get a large amount of fuel flow while cranking the engine and after trying to start, the spark plug is wet and fouled.

I have torn down the brand new carb, cleaned, and reinstalled also as I have read they can come with dirt in them even being brand new.

The Spark plug will spark when out of the engine. I don't know how to determine if it is "good" spark or not though. I also forgot to mention that the pulsar coil has been replaced as well.

I have read about the compression "blowing out" a weak spark when in the engine, but the plug sparking when out of the engine. Is this true? Would it be worth me looking into the electrical system (ignitor, coil, plug wire) or does anyone feel my problems may be mechanical still?

Any input would be greatly appreciated as I am considering giving up soon.

Thanks in advance.

[frodrummer]

I'll take two stabs in the dark here... How old is your plug wire? You may want to trim a bit off to get to the clean wire. This may help decrease the weak spark some if that is whats going on. Even if you have spark, the coil may still not be performing to its full potential. Like you, I don't know of a way to "measure" the strength of the spark. One last question, did you install the piston - port to carb?

[ryanjap33]

I am not sure of the age on the plug wire, however, I did snip about 3/4" or so off and re-screw onto the coil. I am thinking of just ordering a new one for the 10 bucks or so that they cost.

I know i installed the piston rings with the bevel up as I triple checked this when installing them (as I know this is a common mistake), and I'm fairly certain I paid attention and installed the piston with the ports towards the carb as I also knew this issue was common. I will take my exhaust pipe off when I get a chance and verify this.

[frodrummer]

I have not experienced, but have heard that even if you have spark on your plug, it may still need to be replaced. Something cheap to try anyway. The 2pg engines like to be sealed up tight, so although you just rebuilt the thing, you may need to check your crank seals etc. You might even try snugging down on your head bolts just to be sure everything is sealed tightly. It could also be fuel related. Are you premixing fuel? 128:1.

[ryanjap33]

I checked last night and piston is installed with ports towards carb. I verified this by taking the exhaust pipe off and looking through the exhaust port.

I premix my fuel and the original tank I mixed to 40:1 as that's what the manual calls for on the initial break in. Since then, I thought the large amounts of oil in the 40:1 mix may have been causing the plug to foul so I emptied as much out of the tank as i could with my siphon and remixed two gallons at 128:1. The engine still wouldn't start.

I had the engine out after the rebuild to check the timing. After going throught he troubles of pulling the flywheel a second time (the first time was when I replaced the seals) the new seal was in tact and there was no fuel/oil that leaked out so I am fairly certain the new seals are doing their job. The timing marks were aligned on the pulsar coil aluminum ring mount according to the manual I got off of this site. This is when I replaced the pulsar as I damaged it while removing the flywheel the seond time.

The head was torqued in a criss-cross pattern to 18 ft-lbs with new gaskets and I am getting 140 to 145 psi of compression in forward and reverse consistently so I'm fairly certain the top end is sealed up tight.

The only thing I question is the reed valve. i hade the reed valves out and believe i installed them the same direction they were taken out in but I have not verified this. Would the reed valve being in backwards cause the cart not to start? Does anyone have a pic or skematic showing the proper direction for the reed valves to be installed? And it did run for ten minutes after the rebuild and that's why I never thought about the reed valve thus far causing an issue.

[kyerik]

The reed valves allow air to move into to engine but prevent it from going backwards toward the carb. On my 91 (3pg) the reed valves were arranged like a big arrow pointing into the engine. If you remove the carb or intake manifold (I am not sure as to how the 2PG reed valves are set up) you should be able to gently push them inward (toward the crankcase). If you had the reed valves backwards, then the engine would not be able to suck air through the carb and your spark plug wouldn't be fouling with gas and it never would have ran properly.

If the engine is severely flooded (fuel standing in the crankcase), it may just need to sit a few days and evaporate out (leave the spark plug out so the vapors can escape more easily). If you to try to start it without choking it- the plug should not be wet- if it is, then it is flooded.

I think your spark is the issue- the spark should be blueish. A yellow spark is weak. Try decreasing your spark plug gap and see if it sputters. I have also had a few fouled plugs that would short out (there was a conductive coating on the insulator around the center electrode and so the electricity sometimes took this path to ground rather than jumping the gap- so you could try a new plug.

You may want to think about doing the HEI conversion if your spark is weak- I did it 2 weeks ago after I was having intermittent spark issues.

[frodrummer]

Ryanjap, you might check out this thread. Although it may not answer your reed valve question, it may help in other ways. I'll do a search for a carb schematic/reed valve placement pic and see what I can find.

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/gas-e...o-power-2.html

[frodrummer]

kyerik, I would like to do the hei conv as well. Do you happen to know of a parts list, or sourcing info on the parts for an 2pg hei conversion? Or would it follow the same guidelines as the 3pg? Ive read through the sticky on the subject, but it was for 3pg engines.

[devon]

compression test and see if it has a +100 reading. you can "borrow" the gauge from autozone. if all is good then it all is elctrical. i had the same problem and had spun out a an old crankseal. if the compression is bad i would say a ring replacement or start looking for a crack in the inside on the sleeve. make sure that if you are playing with the reed valve that you do not over bend in any way!! i cannot find them for a 244 anymore and i just got done with a 1983 rebuild. muffler and all! also the first place to start when going elctrical is to look at what you bothered, you should be getting a reading of .5 ohms for the pulsar. then go to the solinoid, 12 volt from cranking should be there at 3 out of 4 and double check the fuses if any extras have been installed.(you can never trust any wiring you have not done) next the coil should be around 10-12v and if all clears including all listings above dish the $100 for the coil or convert. the reed valve would only make a bad compression in the "jug" and the fuel pump would suffer from it so if it does not shoot out 3-5inches before you try to cover the intake and get a rocket of fuel it's the reed, another thing i noticed is that the carbs are very poorly built, soft metal and a 1/4 turn to far and you can strip it all. check to see if your valve is still sticking up into the intake that comes from the bowl.it has a threading that changes diameter like screwing in a cone make sure all threads are good on it and inside the carb!!!!!! $10 green locktite threadlocker saved me 250 for a new one and it is made to handle gasoline contact where as gasket maker and silicone are not.

[kyerik]

Originally Posted by frodrummer

kyerik, I would like to do the hei conv as well. Do you happen to know of a parts list, or sourcing info on the parts for an 2pg hei conversion? Or would it follow the same guidelines as the 3pg? Ive read through the sticky on the subject, but it was for 3pg engines.

As far as I know, if your pulser has 2 wires, then the conversion should be the same for the 2PG. The hei module just needs an AC signal from the pulser in order to work the coil. Just buy an hei module and coil for a 1977 chevy nova with the 6 cylinder engine. The hei and coil should each be about $23 (you can find prices online at many of the autoparts websites- oriley, autozone, napa, advance etc..).

You will also need some moderately heavy wire, wire strippers and spade connectors. Oh- and you will also need a crimp on spark plug wire terminal that will fit on the hei coil.

Reducing the plug gap (tap the electrode on a hard surface) or trying a new spark plug would be the cheapest place to start.