battery cable Nuts?

[ThreeCW]

Originally Posted by Cartmaster

Just an afterthought, you mention lifting the seat to vent the gasses given off. Surely my understanding is that is is only hydrogen and oxygen being gassed off? so should not affect corrosion, just creating an explosive atmosphere with the hydrogen . correct me here as This is what i was told when doing my EZGO training.i am probably incorrect

I long wondered about the cause of cause of battery terminal corrosion (white or blue soft (or hard) corrosion product on the terminals) which I find more prevalent on my auto batteries and stored batteries, than on my golf cart batteries ... perhaps the golf cart is getting more attention than the other vehicles

A google search of “what causes lead acid battery corrosion” resulted in the following information … there is NOT a clear consensus on the cause of battery terminal corrosion !! I personally lean towards the NOCO explanation of hydrogen gas release … thus the prevention with proper ventilation by keeping the seats up when charging IMHO But that could be way off too ??? So choose your poison

http://usbattery.com/deep-cycle-batt...ning-solution/
Keeping your battery and the terminals clean is a key maintenance procedure to getting the most performance from your deep cycle batteries. Corrosion occurs when acid from inside of the battery makes its way to the terminals and connectors on top of the battery. The acid attacks the battery terminals and connectors, which if left untreated can reduce or disconnect power to the vehicle. In addition, untreated corrosion can lead to arcing, where the electrical current jumps an air gap resulting in a spark. This arcing can melt terminals, damage connectors, or cause ignition of hydrogen gas emitted during charging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93acid_battery
Corrosion Problems
Corrosion of the external metal parts of the lead–acid battery results from a chemical reaction of the battery terminals, lugs and connectors.
Corrosion on the positive terminal is caused by electrolysis, due to a mismatch of metal alloys used in the manufacture of the battery terminal and cable connector. White corrosion is usually lead or zinc sulfate crystals. Aluminum connectors corrode to aluminum sulfate. Copper connectors produce blue and white corrosion crystals. Corrosion of a battery's terminals can be reduced by coating the terminals with petroleum jelly or a commercially available product made for the purpose.
If the battery is over-filled with water and electrolyte, thermal expansion can force some of the liquid out of the battery vents onto the top of the battery. This solution can then react with the lead and other metals in the battery connector and cause corrosion.
The electrolyte can seep from the plastic-to-lead seal where the battery terminals penetrate the plastic case.
Acid fumes that vaporize through the vent caps, often caused by overcharging, and insufficient battery box ventilation can allow the sulfuric acid fumes to build up and react with the exposed metals.

https://no.co/blog/ultimate-guide-to...tery-corrosion
What Is Car Battery Corrosion?
Battery terminal corrosion is easy to identify. It’s the white, green or bluish stuff on your vehicles battery posts, battery terminals or battery cables. The white substance which you see around battery terminals is either lead sulfate or anhydrous copper sulfate. Anhydrous copper sulfate changes to blue color when exposed to moisture. The bluish material which you see around corroded battery terminals is hydrated copper sulfate and typically experience with copper connectors. Battery corrosion is a poor conductor of electricity, as it increases resistance within the circuit. As a result, the increased resistance can lead to transient current flow, which typically leads to your car not starting.
What Causes Car Battery Corrosion?
Battery corrosion is caused by hydrogen gas being released from the sulfuric acid inside the battery. As the gasses react to the ambient atmosphere, it begins to produce a corrosive environment. Other elements such as moisture and salts only accelerate the process. Typically, battery terminal corrosion occurs on the negative battery terminal, which is a symptom of undercharging the vehicles battery. The main culprit in undercharged batteries is that fact the alternator is not giving sufficient time to replenish lost battery capacity due the electrical load demand of the vehicle, and relatively short uses of the vehicle. If battery corrosion is present on the positive battery terminal, this is a symptom of overcharging.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...internal_short
The terminals of a battery can also corrode. This is often visible with the formation of white powder as a result of oxidation between two different metals connecting the poles. Terminal corrosion can eventually lead to an open electrical connection. Changing the connecting terminals to lead, the same material as the battery pole of a starter battery, will solve most corrosion problems.

http://www.crownbattery.com/faqs
Tray Corrosion
Most trays for motive power batteries are made of steel that is protected with an acid resistant coating. Regardless of how good the coating is, if a break in the coating exposes the steel tray to the sulfuric acid spilled from the battery, the acid will corrode the tray. How quickly the tray corrodes depends on how much and how often acid is spilled on top of the battery, and how often the battery is cleaned.
The major cause of tray corrosion if over watering or overfilling a battery. When overfilled, the electrolyte will spill on top of the battery. Although the water in the electrolyte will evaporate, the highly concentrated acid solution remains and gives the appearance of dampness. If the acid is not removed, the tray will eventually corrode. To prevent corrosion, batteries should be cleaned any time the accumulation of dampness or acid becomes significant.

Trojan – unable to find any information on the cause of battery top corrosion.

[Cartmaster]

Ok, I am taking in all that is being said here and will see if i can get a look at the carts myself. As EZHO says, i am not looking after the fleet myself. I am the course mechanic for the green keepers machines and just get roped in to look at the buggies when they have a problem. I do know that a few carts suffer with over and under watering with the autofil system and have considered removing these and replacing them with single caps. After a little digging, i have found out from one member of the pro shop staff that a Marshal waters the carts every week with the autofil !, I have suggested that they rotate the watering and do maybe ten a week which may help that issue, i have also found that they are still washing off the batteries with plain water even though i have told them many times to use an alkaline solution. and rinse off after. I think this may be where the problem stems from, although most spillage is from one or two batteries on three carts. These batteries have been replaced and the cables have been replaced being made up by myself.

Muddogs comments have i believe, hit the nail on the head. I already install stainless steel nuts when i replace them along with good quality cables.

I do honestly believe that the cables have been fitted from a UK source on the battery packs as i am sure OEM would not fit such poor quality in the factory and this makes sense as i am sure they would not be shipped overseas fully built up. I used to import carts from a chinese manufacturer designed by myself and we never shipped them with batteries. I installed Trojan batteries and manufactured my own cables and never had this problem with them. Mind you, the carts were just rolling chassis, and i also installed quality electrical components from a variety of UK and US suppliers, so the carts were supplied to me as just rolling chassis.

Harry T, i appreciate your comments but i feel we have entirely different climates to operate in, so maybe you have a better situation in your set up. we have a lot of damp high humidity weather here and there is always condensation on the walls of the buggy store, This may well be a factor to take in as if the batteries do get a surface film of electrolyte, it will never really dry out before washing off, so again, i think this has to be part of the problem.

I think now, that the main issue is definitely also partly down to poor management. This and many other course in the UK are pay and play with minimal membership income, this creates a low staff level on the sites and not many course have a dedicated, knowledgeable person looking after the carts. so, with this conclusion, i will draft a recommendation to the course manager regarding managing the fleet correctly and see if we can have a single member of staff trained and dedicated to the cart management. At the moment it is done by whoever is on shift on a Monday morning and i think we can all agree this is not good for the carts.

I think i need to wash my hands of this and stick with the Grass machinery LOL.

More comments will be welcomed.

[Cartmaster]

ThreeCW,

Thank you for taking the time to respond with this information. I had already started to google battery corrosion when i saw your post. I think the information given has confirmed what these discussion from other members have concluded.

It looks like we have hit it, and i can make a decision on approching the course manager with some options.

Now i see when in my distant past, i never saw this on my cars, The battery posts and cable terminals were both made from lead.

Our issue is obviously, electrolyte on the terminals, hydrogen gas reaction with the seats down, the fact that the cable terminals are Zinc coated copper (This will be the discolouration i am seeing) and poor maintenance schedules. this includes not checking for over watering too, and the reason i have had to replace a few low SG batteries ( i think four in total so far.) I am not and never have been a fan of autofill systems as i know these can cause issues if not monitored.

I think we have answered all my questions now, but it would be intersting to hear from any other fleet managers out there with similar issues and how they solved it.

Case closed for me LOL

[TahoeDawgZ71]

Originally Posted by Muddog

There is a keyword in there: autofill.
Your batteries are being overfilled.
Then during charge, they are boiling over.
What you are describing is being caused by "wet acid".
Put new stainless nuts on terminals and throw away the autofill system on the cart giving you the most trouble and monitor water levels weekly.
The problem will go away.

We have a winner

Those single point watering systems that Club Car puts on their carts now as standard equipment are fast and efficient, but in my opinion, they allow for too much water in the batteries.

[Muddog]

One of the first carts I bought had the SP system. I'd never seen no such thing and thought it was a really cool idea.
Filled the jug full of water and hooked it up to batteries, lift it above batteries and was watching the little spinny thing going around, got kinda distracted by it. Some of you know what I'm talkin about. Realized the jug was gettin lite and looked down and water was coming out of the top of some of the batteries..
Pulled the SP and the floats were stuck, they were gritty and rough.
I feel that in order for Sp's to work right, they must be cleaned and maintained regularly, just like your batteries.
To me, they are more bad than good. It might save you time while they work but, you lose that time removing, servicing and replacing the SP's on a regular basis.

I love speed caps. Twist and lift off.
Here's what I'm talkin about:
https://www.flowsystemsusa.com/batte...vent-caps.html
Just google Battery speed caps for more.

[TahoeDawgZ71]

Originally Posted by Muddog

One of the first carts I bought had the SP system. I'd never seen no such thing and thought it was a really cool idea.
Filled the jug full of water and hooked it up to batteries, lift it above batteries and was watching the little spinny thing going around, got kinda distracted by it. Some of you know what I'm talkin about. Realized the jug was gettin lite and looked down and water was coming out of the top of some of the batteries..
Pulled the SP and the floats were stuck, they were gritty and rough.
I feel that in order for Sp's to work right, they must be cleaned and maintained regularly, just like your batteries.
To me, they are more bad than good. It might save you time while they work but, you lose that time removing, servicing and replacing the SP's on a regular basis.

I love speed caps. Twist and lift off.
Here's what I'm talkin about:
https://www.flowsystemsusa.com/batte...vent-caps.html
Just google Battery speed caps for more.

Exactly. For golf courses who have a 2 year lease and a 4 year battery warranty it's perfect. If you've got 65 carts you need to be fast. Watering 65 carts would take a long time the old fashioned way. For an individual owner at his house, don't risk it. Fill them up manually and know for sure how much water you put in your batteries. It's better than constantly worrying about a float getting stuck opened or closed.

[HarryT]

EZHO
When the carts got close to 2 years I started having some of the batteries overflowing. One cell on one or two batteries. I generally catch them when they leak a little bit on top of the battery. I keep records of which cart, which battery and which cell leaked. I pull off the cap and suck the water out to the correct level with a turkey baster. It is mostly water at the top. I flush the floats on the cap with a water hose while moving the float around and in and out to remove the sludge that made it stick. As we only keep our carts for 3 or 4 years I have never had a float stick for a second time. It is a pain but only takes a few minutes. I then flush the top of the battery and squirt lots of water between the batteries and into and overflowing the battery tray. I don't have any corrosion on the terminals or posts. It takes me 5 to 6 hours to do all the batteries with single point but would take me days to fill one cell at a time.
I am not sure what brand our single fills are but our batteries that CC puts in them are PD's. I will see what brand the fillers are when I go to work on monday.
Harry

[Cartmaster]

Ok. It definitely looks like the autofill system is the main culprit. Chatting with the shop staff who do the watering, it transpires that several times they have noticed puddles under the carts when finished watering. One guy said a few carts drink more than others and the spinner never stops so I just turn it off when I see water coming out of the batteries. It looks like I will be changing some batteries out at start of next season lol. Then select a few sensible shop staff to train up for the watering job. I will see if I can get my own key for the cart shed and start checking the autofill for jammed valves and replace them if cleaning does not rectify them. Then start making some new cables to replace the bad ones. Hopefully with all your input, I can stop this corrosion being an issue. It also explains why some comments were made regarding some carts only doing 9 holes on a charge, obviously I can expect a few batteries with weak electrolyte due to the overwatering. I am glad this has come to a resolve, as the manager is talking about doubling the size of the fleet next year.
It is funny how I never had this problem with my own EZGO fleet that I rented out at the motor racing track ten years ago. Maybe their autofill system actually worked!

Many thanks to all your responses.

Much appreciated.

[TahoeDawgZ71]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I am not sure what brand our single fills are but our batteries that CC puts in them are PD's. I will see what brand the fillers are when I go to work on monday.
Harry

The batteries are made by Johnson Controls, the manifolds are made by Flow-Rite.

[Cartmaster]

Just digging up an old thread for an update to let people know what we did.

I have followed up on some suggestions made previously and the issue was pretty much resolved. I replace all corroded cables with new ones made by myself and replaced all the nuts with stainless, i have trained a member of the club who likes to potter around as he is retired and the over/under watering has stopped. The fleet is due replacement this season and the company have taken on board all my comments and suggestions and are now considering a deal with Lithium batteries which will solve all these problems instantly. The Lithium battery packs are offered with a five year warranty, so as we only keep the fleet for 3 years, it should be fine. Only downside is that i will still be expected to fix the carts when crashed LOL.
Many thanks to all those that replied last year.