Do people want programming cables made for them?

[Dawgman25]

My dealer is still struggling to program the controller on the new 2022's. He is talking directly to ICON about this as well and was at the Goodyear factory yesterday. Software is much more complicated, saying there are 5 stages and a lot more changes that need to be made. A lot more tweaks too such as foot pedal response and a few other things he mentioned. There is also a problem saving the changes as the cart keeps reverting back to the default settings.

He just said it isn't nearly as straight forward as the old programming and the cable is in fact different. One more or less (4 to 3 or 3 to 4) wires. He used to do it all on a tablet but thinks it needs to be done on a laptop now. He had no problem getting me the software to play around with, we shall see.

He said he does have it up to 33 mph, but is not exactly sure what settings have been responsible for making that change. I don't pick it up until early next week, so he is going to keep playing with it. He has a lot of hours into this, but he needs to learn it all anyways for his inventory. I'll keep everyone posted as I know more.

[robertmII]

My dealer is in same boat. Cart is factory set at 19 mph. He just received programmer. Will find out soon how straightforward it is to get it right.

[PDACPA]

Do you think Icon is trying to make it difficult for owners to modify the software and thus updated to a more complex software and hardware to modify?

[Dawgman25]

No idea, but it seems to be the case. The fact they did not mention to any dealers about the controller and software change for the 2022's as well as not providing them the software would indicate this. I am sure it will all be figured out in due time.

[BobInDaytona]

I wonder - if dealers get the information / Software / cable to program these new controllers, and if they share it all here, could they get in trouble?
I don't mean with the law, but with Icon?

[kjohnson753]

I just got my 2022 I60L last week. I asked my dealer if I could purchase a programming cable and software through him. He said he wasn’t allowed to sell them and that Icon charged him $750 for the setup.

Hoping this group figures it out. I’d love to be able to tinker with it. Glad to help any way I can.

[Dawgman25]

If Atrain would just simply buy a 2022, then the problem would be fixed!

[BobInDaytona]

I think you meant that Atrain should become a dealer!

[kjohnson753]

I took off the cover and took some pictures of the Controller and programming connected on my Icon 2022 I60L.
Hoping this helps someone figure out the next step for programming the new model.

[ATrain]

Some of this is a little disheartening by ICON. This was my concern with a newer company...that they're dialing things in, figuring out what works, making minor changes, but they don't understand there's an entire community of users that it affects.

Newer companies with this type of growth don't usually learn until they get a bunch of customer feedback and it clicks that they can't just make dramatic changes without rippling the other models.

It's the start of the year so I've been super busy and will continue to be for a little bit, but I'll try to hop on and figure out what I can when I can.

Originally Posted by Dawgman25

My dealer is still struggling to program the controller on the new 2022's. He is talking directly to ICON about this as well and was at the Goodyear factory yesterday. Software is much more complicated, saying there are 5 stages and a lot more changes that need to be made. A lot more tweaks too such as foot pedal response and a few other things he mentioned. There is also a problem saving the changes as the cart keeps reverting back to the default settings.

He just said it isn't nearly as straight forward as the old programming and the cable is in fact different. One more or less (4 to 3 or 3 to 4) wires. He used to do it all on a tablet but thinks it needs to be done on a laptop now. He had no problem getting me the software to play around with, we shall see.

He said he does have it up to 33 mph, but is not exactly sure what settings have been responsible for making that change. I don't pick it up until early next week, so he is going to keep playing with it. He has a lot of hours into this, but he needs to learn it all anyways for his inventory. I'll keep everyone posted as I know more.

This is concerning and positive at the same time. On its face, I'd hope ICON just switches back to the Toyota ones, but I'd like to understand more their reasoning for switching controllers and what the differences are with the new vs old.

More complicated software doesn't worry me too much...that's easy to conquer and it might mean we can better tune the carts. The current software isn't complicated, but things are vague and nobody knows if some settings do anything at all...so there could be an improvement there. I've played with Curtis, Navitas, and Alltrax controllers and they were more complicated than the ICON software too.

The software reverting back to the default settings is probably user error. Doesn't worry me either. Using a laptop/tablet who cares. I thought NEOS required a laptop too, but maybe it can run on certain tablets? It didn't look like it could to me.

The "up to 33mph" doesn't mean anything. Mine does 33mph easily and downhill I hit 37/38 (scary).

I want to know if there is a proprietary piece of hardware required to program the carts. I feel like we could eventually obtain the software and a 4-pin molex is NBD. The question is if they have some weird black-box piece of equipment that you need...Curtis often have this. An example is the Curtis programmer seen here.

$750 concerns me. ICON doesn't usually upcharge the programming devices. This makes me think it could be some weird device we can't get our hands on.

Originally Posted by PDACPA

Do you think Icon is trying to make it difficult for owners to modify the software and thus updated to a more complex software and hardware to modify?

I highly doubt this. It's either cost savings, ease of use, enhanced features, etc.

They wouldn't care what we do with the carts after unless it impacts them. Unless ICON owners have been screwing up their carts with the software and complaining to their dealer to fix it. And even then, for it to get back to ICON HQ would be crazy.

I know they've had many complaints about torque and uphill performance. So this might be their attempt at addressing it??

Originally Posted by Dawgman25

If Atrain would just simply buy a 2022, then the problem would be fixed!

Haha, I actually might if it has anything better.

Originally Posted by BobInDaytona

I wonder - if dealers get the information / Software / cable to program these new controllers, and if they share it all here, could they get in trouble?
I don't mean with the law, but with Icon?

It all depends on the dealer agreement they have with ICON HQ. We'll never know, but I'd assume they would. They also probably wouldn't want to share because that means you have to come to them for help.

Originally Posted by kjohnson753

I took off the cover and took some pictures of the Controller and programming connected on my Icon 2022 I60L.
Hoping this helps someone figure out the next step for programming the new model.

These pictures came through kind of small/grainy. Can you upload them to Imgur.com or ImgBB.com? From what I can see, on the picture with the large white label and small label, a few things stand out to me.

Big label, in Chinese, as best I can tell, I think it says:

Model Number: A617.4+2G - ICON350
Account Name/Customer Name/Customer Number (something like that): United States
Customer Order Number: 6761

What's significant on the small label is: 72VDC 450A

I think they're re-using old labels because ICON350 implies 350 amp, but the smaller sticker says 450A.

72V though!! That is interesting! I want to know if the motor supports it too. They might be trying to improve uphill performance? That could open the door to some cool lithium or other performance things.

I'm worried this is some random, generic Chinese controller. The first things that usually go bad on the controllers are the mosfets. If they go bad, it can be a BIA to fix. You can try and disassemble the controller, locate the failed mosfet(s), and then you have desolder them and replace them...but everything is super compact/tight and it's hard to do by hand. Usually better just buying an Alltrax controller to replace. So if the Chinese stuff uses cheap mosfets, then the controllers might burn out after some years. I had a 15+ year old Western (EzGo) that the controller eventually went out on, so these carts can last a long time.

Problem is, it'll take several years before we know the reliability of these controllers if they're no-brand Chinese stuff. Maybe they're good and reputable though?? I don't want to scare anyone away because I know nothing about them other than what's on the sticker.

Whenever I get some free time I've been meaning to call my dealer up and just bug him and ask him some questions. He'll give me the lowdown on whatever he knows because he likes if I tell him stuff I've figured out.