Built my hunting Buggy - Need some Help

[Daleco]

Site Sponsors made this cart awesome!! At a decent Price. I found a 94 medalist series sitting in a pasture, white, ugly, no lift, flat tires. In a year I made a super hunting buggy to offset my Polaris ranger when I want to be quite.

I have been working with Scotty B on this thing and he has gone above and beyond. Here is my list of upgrades:

8-6 volt continental Batteries
1 -12 volt deep cycle for lights and feeder
500 amp Alltex controller - Scotty B
HD FnR - Scotty B
4 g wires - Scotty B
Digital voltage meter - Scotty B
Pinch hubs - Scotty B
D&D high torque motor 10 HP
Outback front rack
Lift and tires from Trademark Carts
Rear Seat
All Season's feeder


Like I said I have been working with Scotty B and he is awesome. I assembled this all over the past few months and the power just isn't there. We are thinking its batteries. I load tested them and here is the chart for that. Two people in, on flat ground. Max speed 8 mph.


I am taking the cart into the guy I bought the Batteries from two months ago, who says they are completely ok. He wants to load test them, said voltages are fine. I have never took them below 75%, on 6th charge.

Here is what is so confusing. Cart will run 14 mph in reverse and spin wheels on pavement. Gets to speed in no time at all. tons of torque. In forward it will only do 11 mph with one person in. Has lots of power up to 5 mph, then drags along. Orange wire is disconnected for half speed reverse. If you put it on, you get half speed reverse.

I have driven it over 10 miles with two people in it and didn't get to 75% usage off of my voltage meter. So batteries are lasting, just not powerful in forward.

I installed the D&D motor and have the same power I had with stock motor, no increase, so it seems there is a power issue to the motor.

Tested ITS - 8.8 volts peddle up, 5.4 volts peddle down.

Orange light on controller comes on representing full speed when peddle all the way down.

Gone through wiring mulitple times.

Does anyone out here have a similar setup and what are your results?
How do you get the reverse power going forward? If you switch s1 and s2 you just have super reverse when the switch says forward. Can you switch A1 and A2?

Looking for something to compare too. I need some info to see what I should be getting so I know where to go with new batteries or fighting that battle.

Thanks

Jeremy

[DaveTM]

You weren't clear on which Alltrax Controller you have, but if you go to the Alltrax web site, and to their "Document Depot" http://www.alltraxinc.com/Doc_Depot.html you can then select which wiring diagram you need. (For example I have an EZ-GO and an Alltrax AXE Controller, so I scroll down near the bottom of the document page and open the document called E-Z-Go with AXE Wire Diagram

That way you can be sure you have all of your wiring correct.

Now, when I installed heavier wires on my F\R switch, my nephew was "helping me out" and was doing the dirty work for me crawling around under the cart with wrenches and sockets. So, initially the "B" and "D" wires on the F\R switch got reversed....which of course ment that on my F\R switch beside my leg...when I selected "F" I was going in reverse, and when I selected "R" I was going forward.

I checked a bunch of stuff and found this didn't seem to harm anything. And later, when I consulted with an expert.....there was no harm WITH MY PARTICULAR CART!! Your results may vary!! To make it right it was a matter of switching the wires back to where they should have been....in accordance with the wiring diagram.

So....I think I'm saying double check your wiring.....again.

Dave

[Volt_Ampere]

Sounds like you might have forward and reverse backwards. Controllers are designed to limit the speed in reverse. You can flip the motor direction and flip your F/R switch and that may cure your slow forward speed problem.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by Daleco

...........
If you switch s1 and s2 you just have super reverse when the switch says forward. Can you switch A1 and A2?
.............

Connect A1/A2 so you get max power/speed forward and then connect S1/S2 so your F/R lever is correct.

The difference between Forward & Reverse is the relative direction of current flow between Stator and Armature windings.
Unless the Orange wire is connected, the controller doesn't know the difference.
All the cables and contacts used in F are also used in R.

Some motors run better clockwise than counterclockwise, some run better counterclockwise than clockwise and some run about the same in both directions.
Sounds like you got one that runs better in one direction. You might want to talk to D&D about that. It might be intrinsic to their high torque motor design.

I'm not overly impressed with how well the batteries are matched.
The at rest voltage spread was 0.117V in the top row, then climbed to 0.248V in the second row and then dropped to 0.150V while under load.

Of course, they haven't been broken in yet, so they might even out some and a few equalization charges may help.

Also, what happened between the first and second set of numbers?
If they just set for a few days, they appear to have self-discharged at different rates.
Are they all the same date code?

Other than those two items, they appear to be okay.
During your load test, you were hitting then at about 1/3 the max draw for their Amp-Hour rating.
(IE: Max loading would have dropped them to 1.75 Volts per Cell and your batteries dropped from 1.994VPC to 2.001VPC for an average of 1.995VPC.)


I don't know what your charging routine is, but 6 times in two months sounds a little on the infrequent side.
They ought to be charged after each use, no matter how slight.
Personally, I'd initiate several charge cycle while they were fully charged to see if the voltage spread could be reduced to at least 0.1V or less.

FWIW: My new batteries had a 0.02V spread before I gave them an initial charge and afterwards as well, but they were less than a month old upon delivery.

[Daleco]

Ok. On top row of numbers was static.
Second row was test first battery, then drive it. Test second battery, then drive it, so on and so on. That is why the second row voltages were lower and first battery was higher. I hadn't driven it yet. I should of made a lap them measured first battery.

Talked to D&D, they said motor should be same in both directions. That it must be a voltage issue being supplied in forward. I am checking on That this morning.

On my charging, since I converted to. 48 volts I leave the charger hooked up until we ride it. I am going to try charging each battery individually with a 6v charger.


The funny thing is, with the factory motor reverse was much stronger too. Put on the D&D motor and its almost identical to the factory motor. Reverse is Stronger and is a little slower on forward than factory motor.

[Daleco]

I'm still very interested for someone with a cart similar to my set up to chime in on power and how they fill about my numbers. I am starting to think there is just too much weight. But then I ride in one of the old 48v bad boys and it absolutely has 4 times the power I have. Now it does have two motors. But it's completely night and day.

I am thinking 6 -8 volts and no 12 v accessory battery is 150lbs lighter and will suite me better.

[JohnnieB]

That explain the variance between first and second row.
What 48V charger are you using?

Since you were also having major differences between F and R with the stock motor, the most likely suspect is the F/R switch.
All the contacts are used in either direction, but the four contacts on the cam line up with different stationary contacts in F than they do if R, so there could be some mechanical alignment issues.

Connect a DVM between M- and B+ terminals and monitor voltage in F and in R while accelerating and at top speed. They should be the same in both directions.
If not, you should be able to trace the high current cables back to where the voltage drop is.


------------
Another possibility is that the cart rolls backwards easier than it rolls forwards.
Dragging brakes shoes?
Bad bearings?

---------
14 MPH (in reverse) sounds a little slow for a 48V series with stock gears and what looks to be tall tires (18" is stock height), but that may be due to the high torque motor having lower RPM. Or it could be mechanical drag keeping the top speed down.

[yurtle]

In addition to JohnnyB's suggestionsw, you could remove the 1/2 speed reverse wire, and reverse either the rotor or stator wires on either the motor or the FNR. If that changes your performance, that would point to JohnnyB's suggestion that you may have a FNR problem.

As to mechanical drag, it's possible your brakes are grabbing more in forward than reverse.

Owner's, Parts, and Service Manuals:
http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/elect...g-manuals.html

Good info on checking and adjusting brakes.

[DaveTM]

Just to comment on your batteries, I just swapped out my batteries as mine were a "well used" 5 years old. I went from 6, 8-V Excide batteries to 8, 6-V Trojan T-105's and I will never go back to 6, 8-Volts again. The run time (even when my cart was brand new) with the 8, 6-V's is much better. Or...I should say much, much better. Or actually....much, much, much better.

I drive my cart in SW Pa. and believe me.....all we have here are hills. And I mean HILLS!!! If you bring your cart here front disc brakes are a MUST!! Not an option. Unless you like brown stains on your undies!!

Dave

[Daleco]

I have an DPI Accusense charger. Brand new.

I thought about the brakes and bearing thing. I loosened my brakes up so there was no contact. Same results. The cart does appear to roll better in reverse than forward on flat ground. Which I can't explain why. It's not the brakes. Scotty b and I had talked about that. I was trying to blame my rear end at one point.

Just tested voltage. 11 mph forward 48.1 volts at full speed flat ground.
47.4 volts in reverse at 14 mph same test. It's drawing more power in reverse?? DVM said 52.1 volts at static for pack.

22" tires.

Cart has never gone over 14 mph with these tires. So now I'm thinking its weight, batteries, and something that is causing resistance going forward. Any ideas on the resistance?