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01-31-2014, 06:15 PM | #11 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bunnell, Florida
Posts: 2,408
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
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01-31-2014, 06:53 PM | #12 | |
Techno-Nerd
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 19,654
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
Quote:
However it is true that most patent applications are carefully written to convey a new and novel idea, without disclosing enough of the intellectual property that protection is being sought for, to duplicate it. If not enough information is submitted to prove it is a new and novel idea, the application is reject and must be re-submitted with additional information. Of course, if more information than what is needed is submitted, it cannot be "un-submitted" and is disclosed publicly. The operation of the ITS sensor is fairly well described in the patent document I posted. Not enough to duplicate it, but well enough to understand how it works. |
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01-31-2014, 07:00 PM | #13 |
Techno-Nerd
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 19,654
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
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01-31-2014, 07:12 PM | #14 | |
Techno-Nerd
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 19,654
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
Quote:
Of course, there have been those that have been on the receiving end that have describe it in far more explicit terms. |
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01-31-2014, 07:37 PM | #15 | |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: South Georgia
Posts: 1,120
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
Quote:
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01-31-2014, 08:23 PM | #16 |
Not Yet Wild
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 46
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
Sorry chaps...gone off a bit half cocked......did not read the pattent document.
Have now. Quite surprised at the amount of detail given, pretty well full circuit discription. not particularly clever....I have read other patents and all you get is a broard discription and a block diagramme. Quite often too the patent for a thing is not for what you would expect. Anyway...I continue to expect the same issues that would be found in other inductor bassed controlls & things. mechanical wear in the tubular part where the slug travels in the coil could result in issues. as for reverse engineering. With this patent document, no need, next year you could make an exact coppy with impunity unless the patttent owner has some other form of IP pritection. My understanding is that pattents are issued for 10 years and may be extended for no more than a further 10 years. As for if you would......if you where intent on bringinmg a product to market.....in this day and age there are other things that would do the job better and would probaly be cheaper to manufacture. Shaft encoders, hall effect devices, optics and the electronics to operate them have become better and very much cheaper than they where in 1995. The cost of the electronics would be relativly low, the big cost is the manufacture of the coil and the slug that operates in it. It could possibly be easy enough to do it all with some sort of micro and off the shelf encoder. is there are market for a replacement controll for the relativly small number of machines that use this sensor. Old style pot boxes are still arround and the chineese seem to think it worthwhile making pretyy good coppies......is it viable to make an aftermarket coppy? cheers |
02-01-2014, 06:20 AM | #17 |
Techno-Nerd
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 19,654
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
To put a few things into perspective:
Duplicating, cloning, replicating or copying the Curtis ITS sensor is possible, but would the demand for the product justify the expense of doing so? Everything inside the case is encapsulated in a potting compound, so troubleshooting and/or repairing the PC Board or coil is impractical, if not impossible. Designing a better sensor using later developments in sensor technology won't be easy since the portions of the ITS circuitry that are in the controller are tailored for the existing sensor technology. The information in the patent simply answered a few unanswered questions that some of us have had and opened the door to eventually being able to test a sensor without installing it in a cart, but other than that, nothing much has changed. |
02-02-2014, 11:35 AM | #18 | |
Gone Mad
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Buford, GA
Posts: 8,988
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
Quote:
I have also dug up patent info on devices I've acquired, and find it to generally be useful. |
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02-03-2014, 05:02 PM | #19 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: South Georgia
Posts: 1,120
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
Problem with my old golf cart that started the ITS investigation when it failed to move acted up again today. Yesterday it worked fine. It sat overnight and today it would not move. I used information from previous readings to check the ITS. It has a current draw of 1.3 milliamps and increased to 2 milliamps as throttle was depressed all the way. Under the same conditions the voltage across the ITS measured 12 volts and decreased to 8 volts. I checked everything to the controller ( B+, B-, ITS input, etc, continuity of the F-R switch contacts and wiring to the to the motor terminals. Controller is not producing M-. It might go back to work tomorrow. Temp today 78 degree today might be a contributing factor. But the ITS is not the problem. (JohnnieB: Please note correct current measurement is 1.3 milliamps on solenoid click, not 1.5 ma I reported earlier. I read the red AC graduation scale on my Simpson 260).
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02-03-2014, 05:55 PM | #20 | |
Techno-Nerd
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 19,654
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Re: How the ITS works is now known.
Quote:
The voltage is supplied by the controller and if you have a stock (Curtis) controller, the voltage is measured from B- to one side and then B- to the other side. I don't know if those voltage readings are good or bad without knowing the controller type. What controller do you have? With the pedal pushed just far enough for solenoid to click, you should measure FULL battery pack voltage between B- and M-. If not, there is an open somewhere in the high current circuit.(Cables, F/R switch contacts, solenoid contacts, Motor and battery pack) At low RPM, the motor will draw all the amps the battery pack will produce and the controller limits the number of amps the motor is allowed to draw. The control element (a dozen or so MOSFTEs in parallel) is located between the B- and M- terminals on the controller. When the MOSFETs are turned off (No throttle input) they drop the entire battery pack voltage. When they are turned on 100% of the time (Max throttle input), they only drop about 0.5V per 100A of current flow through them. |
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