Battery replacement questions again.

[paramedtim]

I've read all the forum posts about batteries but I am confused about something and need some advice. My 2006 TXT has Trojan T-105 batteries. They're the originals that came on the cart. They're just not lasting anymore and I can't even get 9 holes in. The Trojans are rated at 25 amps 447 minutes, 75 amps 115 minutes and 20 Hr Rate AH 225 and 5 Hr rate 185. The cheapest I can find them for around here is $130 each. My wife works for a local tire store that deals in batteries too. The ones they can get me are called Redi Start batteries. They are rated at 25 amps 290 minutes, 75 amps 110 minutes and 20 Hr AH 225 . I know there is some difference from the Trojans. But with her employee discount they're only $88.95 each and they will let us deduct it from her pay each week. I can't find anything out about them on the web though. They have sold them in the past and even used them on the golf cart they use around the store for ferrying tires from the warehouse and other things and they say they got good results with them. Do these sound like they are may give me enough run time to use on the course for a round or two a day? The warranty on them is 12 month free replacement and pro-rated after that. I'm on a budget but I don't want to waste my money on batteries that won't give me good service. I want you guy's opinions.

Thanks, Tim

[JohnnieB]

The name implies it is a "Starting" battery, which are no-no's for carts.
Of course, it could be a Traction or Deep Discharge battery that has a misleading trade-name.

Is there a label on the battery that says it is a deep discharge or traction type battery, or something in a brochure for that model battery that says so?
If not, I'd steer clear of them.

Also, is there any correlation between the gofer duties of the carts at your wife's workplace and your needs on the golf course?
Distances traveled, number of trips, time between charges, Etc.

Basically, you'll be risking $533.70 on the chance of saving $245.30 and if you loose the bet, you'll be out over $1,300.00

[scottyb]

Ask who makes the battery and what it weighs. if it is 64# you may be okay but looking at the lower AH rating at 25a I suspect you will get a shorter run time.

[madoc1]

if you have sam's club nearby i would check out their interstate batt. they were 66.65 plus the $2 disposal fee. have had good luck with these. this is popular battery, and if well taken care of, should last a long time.

[paramedtim]

Originally Posted by JohnnieB

The name implies it is a "Starting" battery, which are no-no's for carts.
Of course, it could be a Traction or Deep Discharge battery that has a misleading trade-name.

Is there a label on the battery that says it is a deep discharge or traction type battery, or something in a brochure for that model battery that says so?
If not, I'd steer clear of them.

Also, is there any correlation between the gofer duties of the carts at your wife's workplace and your needs on the golf course?
Distances traveled, number of trips, time between charges, Etc.

Basically, you'll be risking $533.70 on the chance of saving $245.30 and if you loose the bet, you'll be out over $1,300.00

Thats just the trade name. They are deep cycle batteries. I don't know how far they run it as far as yardages. I know the warehouse was a couple of blocks away from the shop and he just said they ran it back and forth all day and recharged at night. They are the only tire store in town and I know they do run their tail ends off hauling tires of all sizes. He told me they had to put tractor wheel weights on the front end to hold it down. So I figure lots of poundage along with distance several times a day.

[paramedtim]

Originally Posted by madoc1

if you have sam's club nearby i would check out their interstate batt. they were 66.65 plus the $2 disposal fee. have had good luck with these. this is popular battery, and if well taken care of, should last a long time.

The Sam's Club in Lubbock has them for $78 and some change. The problem is that I don't have the money to buy them outright. I can pay the others out where she works. I know that sucks but I just don't have a lot of cash sitting around.

[paramedtim]

Does the 25 amps at 290 minutes translate to having a draw of 25 amps constant it should run for 290 minutes? So if I run it like a normal golf cart and stop and go with no constant amp draw I should get a full round out of it? Or am I looking at it wrong? Is that drawing it down to 0 volts or does it mean down to like 3-4 volts?

[72volt_ezgo]

Originally Posted by paramedtim

Does the 25 amps at 290 minutes translate to having a draw of 25 amps constant it should run for 290 minutes? So if I run it like a normal golf cart and stop and go with no constant amp draw I should get a full round out of it? Or am I looking at it wrong? Is that drawing it down to 0 volts or does it mean down to like 3-4 volts?

That is drawing it down to zero or 10% State Of Charge ( SOC ).
That would be about 5.5V for a 6V lead acid battery! Not 0 volts or 3-4 volts! Please don't ever let that happen to them! Get some kind of volt meter if you have to!
I personally consider pulling voltage down below nominal voltage (6V ,12V etc) murdering the batteries. Abuse like that will permanently damage the battery,shortening it's life and capacity.
To get an ideal SOC measurement you would check voltage after the battery has been left alone for at least a few hours,some will say 12,some will say 24hrs ,opinions vary. Meaning you can check voltage during charge and during discharging (actually you should to monitor for over charge/over discharge) but to get an idea of SOC you would let the battery sit.

About the Ah (amp hour) ratings. The minutes per amp rating is nice and yes you were looking at that right in your example.

A lead acid battery becomes smaller in capacity the faster it is discharged.
So for example 220 Ah does not mean it will give 220 amps for an hour.That is due to the fact that at that kind of discharge rate (amps) a lot of the power goes into creating waste heat due to internal resistance of the battery and other inefficiencies. ( called Peukert effect).

Now if we devide the 220 amps by 20 (hours) = 11 amps. If we discharge this same battery at a rate of 11 amps,now it can sustain that for 20 hours before the voltage sags to a low level indicating 0 or 10% SOC.

If we nail this same battery with a 220 amp draw it will probably go to 10% SOC within 30 minutes or so,making it a 110 Ah battery! But that does not look as impressive on the sticker as 220 Ah (@ 20 hr) does!

I hope it makes sense.
Barna

[paramedtim]

I first noticed something was wrong about a month and a half ago. I had went to play and when I got there I checked the water in the batteries and the plates were exposed so I topped off the batteries (not completely only about halfway up between the plates and the bottom rings in the filler holes) and went and played my round. I had topped off the batteries about 6 weeks before and I play about 2 times a week during the summer. When I got done I plugged the charger in and left. The charger is a Powerwise II. I played a couple of weeks later and finished topping off the batteries to the ring. Towards the end of the round it was getting a little slow. I plugged it in and left. I didn't use it again for a month and last Tuesday I went to play. It wouldn't move. I found a broken cable and replaced it. It still wouldn't move but I could hear the motor running so I figured it was so discharged it wouldn't run fast enough to engage the clutch. I left it on the charger and went back Thursday. It ran strong for about 4 holes and by the 6th hole it would barely move. I was thinking the batteries were toast and started looking for new ones. I brought it home and put it on the charger Thursday night and today it was still showing a 5 amp draw on the charger.

Today I was checking the cables and found the one that the battery charger lead was connected too was barely hanging on. So I went to NAPA and bought me some 2 gauge copper wire and some copper lugs (soldered them on) and made me a new set of cables. I just got done making and installing them a few minutes ago so maybe that will fix my problem. After I get a good charge I'm going to voltage test them. I also checked the battery dates and they're all G6 which I guess means they're July 2006 so I figure they are getting close to the end of their lifespan. If anybody has any ideas about what else to do let me know.

Thanks and I apologize for the long post.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by paramedtim

..........If anybody has any ideas about what else to do let me know.............

Your golf cart is exhibiting Resistentialism because you've been neglecting it. Go forth and sin no more.

When you get a new set of batteries, whatever brand they may be:
* After installation and before first use - Charge them fully.
The first charge will take a long time, 12-18 hours, so plan ahead.

* Break in your new batteries properly.
Until they are "Matured", new batteries only have about 75% of their maximum storage capacity (run time) and must be broken in properly to obtain 100%.
http://www.cartsunlimited.net/Batter...n_Methods.html

* Only add water (Distilled water only) to fully charged batteries.
If plates are exposed, added enough to cover plates and fill to 1/8" below bottom of fill tube after charging.

* Clean batteries and cable connectors monthly.
* Inspect cables & connectors while cleaning.
* Apply corrosion preventative product to connectors after cleaning.
* Place $10 bill in Mason Jar after servicing cart. That way you'll have the funds for a new set of batteries when you need them,

* Put on charge after each day's use.
Lighter discharges before recharging equates to longer life span.
Heavier discharges before recharging equate to shorter life span.
Never, ever, discharge batteries below 50% SoC.


If you don't have a Digital Multimeter, get one. An inexpensive one will be adequate.
If you don't have a SoC (State of Charge) meter on your cart, install one. DVM type are best.
http://www.cartsunlimited.net/Digita...ry_Meters.html

Good luck
John

Added - Here's the SoC chart that 72volt_ezgo provide, but in a slightly larger format and easier for us old guys to read.