More FSIP Duds, this is getting old!

[nickdalzell1]

Is there any company any of you know of OTHER than FSIP?! I need someone who can rebuild controllers and not send back duds or ones that explode:

Case in point, gold TXT 48V came in, dead batteries, 7 years old. Replaced batteries. Nothing happens even in RUN. No backup beeper, nothing. Handheld won't power up. Remove controller, it rattles so I know it's bad.

We got two FSIP rebuilds for this, all dated 2020. First one the car goes two feet then sounds of arcing from controller and smoke. beep beep beep then nothing. Handheld shows Field Open. Motor passes continuity test. It's not the motor.

Second controller, click, no go. Shows M- short. No pop or smoke out of this one, but it's another dud.

This is seriously getting old. We're now at a 99% failure-rate of any control they send back dated 2019+. They used to do a great job. We really need a company we can trust because customers are tired of waiting. (Seriously, I want resistor cars back!)

[JohnnieB]

Mark Twain said it best.

Quality is like buying oats: If you want nice, clean, fresh oats you must pay a fair price. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes a little cheaper...

My opinion of repaired/rebuilt/refurbished/remanufactured controllers is roughly the same as your view of batteries other than Trojan or US Battery, or maybe a notch or six down the quality totem pole from there.

All the above descriptors mean the same thing, only the known problems are fixed.

There is a little something called MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) that applies to electronics and other stuff. When a part is replace to fix a problem, all the other parts in the device have already used up a portion of their MTBF and will likely fail when their time is up.

[scottyb]

I second that. We tried to use FSIP rebuilt controllers 10 years ago only to find out they were NOT rebuilt but repaired! There is a big difference there. If your car engine blew up would you want it rebuilt or patched up ?

We finally got off the rebuilt merry go round - after several unhappy customers and unhappy techs swapping controls for free. And we went with Alltrax and never looked back

[nickdalzell1]

I want to go with Alltrax (specifically the XCT) but they're too expensive and the boss won't hear any of it.

We did go with XCTs for two DCS cars that blew their controllers from running garbage Rural King batteries (and all our DCS controls FSIP sent back were duds) but after that the price got too high to keep any in stock and customers didn't want to pay.'

My biggest issue is lately customers expect golf carts to be cheap to maintain--it's not easy to explain to someone who is used to the prices of keeping a resistor car going why his installing a radio in his new RXV he just bought EOL'd the controller which costs $650+.

Solid state crap is killing us. That controller is becoming a major pain in my backside along with the refusal of customers to acknowledge why theirs blew up. It doesn't help when a company we rely on to fix the bad ones sends us back so many duds in recent years that we have to keep their cars longer and wait for them to come back, and hope it's not another dud!

The only company we dealt with besides FSIP was Controller Test Services--they were even worse. Their controllers would work--for a day or two and just up and die. I really hope other companies exist but I can't find any, and this site has FSIP as a sponsor so I don't guess anyone likes them getting bad press.

When I joined this forum in 2011, I was just starting to work on golf cars and they were all resistor specials. I really miss those--easy to work on, darned reliable, and cheap to fix any customer mess-up. I also miss the Robin twin cylinder engines (I still hate the 13HP Kawasakis. The way the dipstick goes through the valve cover, I think that's stupid. The oil drain plugs are PLASTIC. The camshafts are PLASTIC (only discovered that after someone brought in an RXV that had one halfway tore down))

I can make a harness for a resistor car with three wires and some butt splices. 99% the issues involve bad batteries or a bad solenoid or micro switch. I'm sorry but I don't see the real benefit of solid state. Speed? You can put a high-speed motor or upgrade a 36V resistor Marathon to 48V. There were no angry customers yelling at us for explaining what a new controller costs much less why theirs blew up (gosh darned Rural Kings!!! Every. Freaking. Time! Please let that place go out of business like Kmart and Sears! Every time I go in there it's empty and dead just like Kmart was, and the 'new' Rural King is just a garbage version of Harbor Freight.)

[JohnnieB]

Blow the attached up to poster size, hang it on the wall in your shop and point to it when the customer balks at the expense of using quality products.

[scottyb]

Resistor coil technology was patented for elevators in around 1930. It was used until about 1990 Here we are 30 years later. Technology has made many improvements in our equipment and lives. Is it cheaper? No, have wages gone up to compensate? Yes.
Basically you are asking for 1980s technology and prices. There may be a real niche for your business. Many people hate advancements in tech and equipment.

But we see thousands of happy Alltrax customers each year enjoying higher street speeds, greater reliability, and higher efficiency. In fact, I just went to bat for 2 BGW Alltrax owners this AM. Both needed new controllers not covered under warranty. 1. User error. 1. expired 2 year no questions asked warranty.
Both customers of mine walked away with new FREE controllers.
I'm not saying this happens all the time but try that with FSIP ! It ain't gonna happen. In fact try getting any failure warrantied at FSIP. It's always denied... that's why we do not carry their controls any longer.

GLWTB

[rabbitreborn]

I've got to Echo JohnnieB and Scotty. You get what you pay for.

I personally cant stand the fact that the same carts I was buying a year ago are now costing me 12-1400 more this year but it is what it is. I have personally told a good number of customers that if they had bought the same cart 12 months ago, they would have saved a grand. It sucks, but no one can turn back the hands of time.

When I started in this business a set of Trojan batteries for an EZGO was under $400. They now cost close to $900 in my area. I would love to sell Trojans for $400 again but that isn't going to happen.

I get people in here all the time asking why they can't install Rural King batteries. I tell every one of them the same thing. You CAN. Just expect to install another set in about 12-18 months. and then I laugh.

As for FSIP..... Yeah, they are a sponsor, but you won't see me EVER ordering from them..... EVER. In 2003, EZGO built 2 brand new fleets of carts using FSIP controllers. 60 carts per fleet. Within a month, we had already replaced more than half in each fleet. At that point, the district manager made the command decision to replace the other half before we got any more calls...... One of those fleets was at Arnold Palmer's Bay Hill course...... let's just say that man was NOT happy that his pride and joy course was constantly having carts down for bad controllers....

[scottyb]

Good to see you posting Wabbit.
About the bad controllers...Everybody makes makes mistakes. Every company is going to have good and bad products. Look at any car manufacturer to see what I mean. I believe it's what you do after the mistake that matters. And in the case where we bought hundreds of the Star series controls from them for our conversion kits I would say that so many failure claims were denied that we felt it was a categorically directive from management. We ended up buying new Alltrax controls for some of our customers who were effected. Again it is what you do after the problem... and we quit FSIP controls and put all of our controller orders in the Alltrax basket.
Which hasn't been without it's supply problems but again, they are the best warranty and service controller company bar none. We have been selling Alltrax controls for 12 or 13 years

[Imapled]

Originally Posted by nickdalzell1

Is there any company any of you know of OTHER than FSIP?!

Call Casey Meyers at CAP Services.

Super awesome guy and does great work! Way better prices too!

http://www.capsservice.com/index.html

[Mooncarter]

Thank you JB!