2002 PDS ITS Question (Inductive Speed Control)

[MauiHoss]

I have a 2002 EZ-GO PDS that is a NO-GO. When I press the pedal the solenoid clicks and the cart tries to move then nothing.

I opened the pedal box and checked the micro-switch -- it's working fine.

I put the neg lead of the voltmeter on the battery B- and the pos lead on the ITS at the white wire. With the key on, switched to Forward... the volt meter reads from 14.5V up to 15V+ as the pedal is depressed. The manual seems to indicate that it should range from 1V (initial) to 2.7V (full throttle). Is it possible that I just need a new ITS?

Seems that this all happened after towing another cart -- perhaps I stressed out the ITS. I befuddled.

[JohnnieB]

The voltage on the White wire (J4 Pin-4) should be 15.0V +/- 1.0V pedal up or down.
The voltage on the Black wire (J4 Pin-3) should vary from 1.0V +/- 0.3V when solenoid first clicks up to 2.9V +/- 0.4V when pedal is down.

ITS troubleshooting tree is step 40, starting on page F-15.

Chances are more likely that the controller gave up the ghost than harming the ITS while towing.

This isn't one the troubleshooting tree, but it should be.

Connect DVM test leads between B- and A1 (Might be marked M-) terminals on PDS controller.
You should measure FULL battery pack voltage when the solenoid first clicks.
If not, there is an open or excessive resistance in the high current loop. (High current cables, contacts, connections and motor)

If so, press pedal slowly to floor. The voltage should decrease smoothly to Zero, or very close to Zero.
If not, and the ITS voltages are good, the controller is bad.

[MauiHoss]

Thanks -- I'll try that.

[MauiHoss]

OK -- so I did this test between B- and A1 and found that the voltage shows a minor dip as the solenoid first clicks then remains high through the rest of pedal travel to floor. I presume that means the controller is kaput.

Now, I start shopping for a new controller and find that there are many options available.

DIY GolfCart has a rebuild 300A for just under $300. Blockbuster has an Alltrax 300A for $333. ShopEZGO has a new controller for a whopping $655! I see that many here seem to like the Alltrax units and that chopping the controller cover for airflow is sometimes recommended.

We putter around on a 12 acre farm with moderate hills and I had rigged my own "Freedom" plug sometime ago to increase speed. Given that, it doesn't seem like an upgrade is necessary. We occasionally tow the wood chipper around but for the most part this cart is just used to get from point A to point B or give tours to visitors (often three-up).

BTW -- I tried the diagnostic mode test. I got the initial four beeps indicating that the freedom plug is in place but there were no additional codes reported.

Thanks for the help. How did we ever get by without the internet?

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by MauiHoss

1. OK -- so I did this test between B- and A1 and found that the voltage shows a minor dip as the solenoid first clicks then remains high through the rest of pedal travel to floor. I presume that means the controller is kaput.

Now, I start shopping for a new controller and find that there are many options available.

2. DIY GolfCart has a rebuild 300A for just under $300. Blockbuster has an Alltrax 300A for $333. ShopEZGO has a new controller for a whopping $655! I see that many here seem to like the Alltrax units and that chopping the controller cover for airflow is sometimes recommended.

3. We putter around on a 12 acre farm with moderate hills and I had rigged my own "Freedom" plug sometime ago to increase speed. Given that, it doesn't seem like an upgrade is necessary. We occasionally tow the wood chipper around but for the most part this cart is just used to get from point A to point B or give tours to visitors (often three-up).

BTW -- I tried the diagnostic mode test. I got the initial four beeps indicating that the freedom plug is in place but there were no additional codes reported.

Thanks for the help. How did we ever get by without the internet?

1. If the throttle (ITS) input to controller is good and the controller output is bad, chances are 99.9% or more the controller is bad.
I avoid absolute statements because just about anything is possible when troubleshooting electric golf carts.

2. & 3. If you have tires taller than 18" or wider than 8.5" or carry more than two people or tow anything you probably need something with a little more oomph that the stock PDS (300A) controller.

One of the Site Sponsors has a re-manufactured PDS controller that is rated at 350A for about $230, that might work if you are running stock tires and have lightweight visitors.
https://fsip.workxpress.com/page/lin...221edd7d&wxm=1

If your running oversize tires or haul/tow heavier loads, a higher amp controller is needed.
Another of the BGW sponsors puts out some upgrade kits at very competitive pricing and is know for his excellent customer support.
I have the #808B kit. (DCX400PDS with a Super-Duty solenoid rather that the Heavy-Duty)
http://www.cartsunlimited.net/Custom_Options.html

[MauiHoss]

I decided to get the #808 package from ScottyB at cartsunlimited along with a set of 4ga wires. I have it all installed now and Scott has been helping me troubleshoot whatever problem is keeping my cart from running. He's great and remarkably patient.

When I first tested the new install, run/tow = run, key on, FNR in F -- the Alltrax green LED flashed four times and then went on solid. A split second later, the solenoid clicked twice -- perhaps on & off -- before touching the pedal. This did not move the cart at all thankfully as I was totally unprepared for that spontaneous blip of the solenoid. This seemed odd to me but it only happened the first and second times during the first test day. Touch the pedal and I got maybe 1/2" of travel before the cart stopped. This is exactly how the cart was acting before anything was changed.

Scott suggested checking the wiring to the motor for rub-through wear at the back of the battery housing. The wiring all seems to be in good shape -- casings are intact.

I thought perhaps that I had wired the solenoid incorrectly so I swapped the yellow/blue wires and positive oriented diode on the small lugs. Run/tow = Run, key on, FNR = F -- green LED flashes four times and goes solid on. No on/off solenoid click this time. Depress pedal and nothing -- not even the 1/2" I was getting before and no solenoid click either. Swapped the y/b wires and diode back to the original config. Test was the same -- depress pedal and nothing. OK -- at least the solenoid isn't flipping on/off on it's own.

Tested the solenoid by removing the y/b wires and diode then placed a jumper wire from one little lug to neg side of battery pack. Another jump wire from pos battery pack to touch other little lug on solenoid -- "click". Solenoid is fine. Replaced y/b wires and diode.

At this point, I'm guessing either the ITS or the motor has failed. Since the solenoid isn't clicking on pedal movement, I'm re-checking the ITS. I saw a post where someone reported removing the white/black wires from the ITS and getting 8+ across the bare spade connectors on the ITS. I'll also try again to work my way through the flow chart from the manual.

I will do a continuity test on the wires from the ITS since it seems that no signal is getting to the solenoid. I have already checked the micro switch in the pedal box and it is working fine.

There aren't many parts left to replace or repair. Eventually, this will be a much better setup for the farm.

Hijacking my own thread here with another question for you experts on a motor swap. I installed a high-torque motor in a 1995 EZGO way back when. The 1995 EZGO has been slowly rusting to death so it hasn't been used for two or three years. Will this motor fit in my 2002 EZGO PDS? Do they both have the 19-spline output gear? Since the new controller/solenoid kit from ScottyB doesn't use the regen loom from the PDS motor I figured it might be doable.

Time to get my DVM out again.

[JohnnieB]

Is the 1995 cart have series drive (series would motor) or is it a DCS (predecessor to the PDS)?
If it is a DCS, the motor will work in a PDS. (Both are sepex motors)
If it is a series cart, the motor won't work and is likely to burn out the new controller if installed.

The DCX400PDS controller does have regen braking. I suspect what you are referring to as the "regen loom", is the motor speed sensor. (Three pin plug with Red, White and Black wires)

The controller supplies the voltage to the ITS, so the voltages given in the PDS service manual are no longer valid.
The voltage between the white and black wires to the ITS sensor should be 10V when pedal is pushed just far enough to make solenoid click and 6V when pedal is on floor.

[MauiHoss]

Just pulled the manual for the old EZGO and realized it's a '92. I'll check the old motor in the barn to see how the terminal bolt sizes compare to the PDS. That will be a big clue.

Re: "regen loom" -- yes, I meant the motor speed sensor. I wonder if I still get "walk away" protection with the new set up.

Thanks for the test specs on the ITS with the AllTrax DCX400PDS. Now if I can just get the solenoid to click when engaging the pedal. Have been reading posts and the new "to check" list is growing. Key switch voltage, reed switch @ charge plug, ITS wiring, etc.

At least I have to wheels off the ground so I don't run myself over when it works again.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by MauiHoss

1. Just pulled the manual for the old EZGO and realized it's a '92. I'll check the old motor in the barn to see how the terminal bolt sizes compare to the PDS. That will be a big clue.

2. Re: "regen loom" -- yes, I meant the motor speed sensor. I wonder if I still get "walk away" protection with the new set up.

3. Thanks for the test specs on the ITS with the AllTrax DCX400PDS. Now if I can just get the solenoid to click when engaging the pedal. Have been reading posts and the new "to check" list is growing. Key switch voltage, reed switch @ charge plug, ITS wiring, etc.

4. At least I have to wheels off the ground so I don't run myself over when it works again.

1. If the cart in the barn is Pre-1995, it will be a series wound motor and won't work in a PDS cart.

2. The DCX controller does not have the "Walk-Away" feature, but it also does not limit the motor to 4,400RPM like the PDS controller does.
FWIW: I'm going to use the speed sensor for a Tachometer/Speedometer.

3. Yep, the "To-Check" list is pretty long and fairly complex. Here is a schematic with the solenoid activation circuit highlighted.

4. I installed a 1/2" eye-bolt in the hole that goes through rear cross-member of frame that is located at rear-center of the bagwell and I've got a chain hoist hung from a sturdy branch on a shade tree, so I lift the rear tires off the ground slightly whenever I'm testing stuff while the drive system is live, or might become live. Of course, I put it on jack-stands if I'm going to be under the cart or running the motor intentionally.

I guess that makes me a Shade-Tree mechanic.

[MauiHoss]

Progress!

Today I noticed that I had left the J4 connector unplugged from the AllTrax harness adapter. This provides input from the pedal box so it's no surprise that I had no solenoid click. Hopefully, this hasn't buggered the controller.

Now, I get a click and the wheels move. Well, one of them does but perhaps that's a differential function. Put the cart on the ground and find that I get a stutter of movement, maybe two feet, before the controller flashes an error code. 6 red LED flashes -- battery under-voltage detected according to AllTrax mini-manual. Odd since I was reading 40+V from the battery pack at the start of the test and 37.6V after a few minutes of testing.

Jacked up the rear end again and retested. The one wheel turns, speed increases with pedal travel until the controller reaches same error condition -- 6 red LED flashes. The motor turns at slower speed from quite some time without triggering an error code. Juice it up and she craps out. So, the cart isn't happy under load. I will search for posts on this problem but gladly accept opinions in the meantime. I've been e-mailing ScottyB with updates as well.

BTW -- I checked my charge receptor box and found that someone has already bypassed the magnetic switch therein by attaching the small red wire to the larger white wire which leads to the battery pack. It appears to be a very neat job so I wonder if it may have been done at the factory.