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Old 09-30-2020, 01:34 PM   #1
diver6
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Default Battery draw trouble shooting

I’ve been having a problem with run time so I checked for draws on the battery between the negative cable and the battery with my multi meter. I found a draw of 20 amps! We’re do I start to check for problems? Is there a way to check for a bad motor winding? I just put brand new Trojans in this spring. I’m sure there’s a draw because when I hook up the negative cable it sparks.
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Old 09-30-2020, 02:36 PM   #2
Bama Brad
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

Welcome to BGW! Can you give more specifics as far as cart make, model, condition, accessories. maybe some pictures of batteries. Hard to help without little more info. I assume you have looked at wiring to see if any are chaffed/old or corroded connections.
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Old 09-30-2020, 02:43 PM   #3
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

What year and which type drive?
What voltage battery pack?

A spark will occur when you connect the last cable, no matter which cable is last.

The controller contains a dozen or so filter capacitors with upwards of a Farad of capacitance, so the inrush of amps can create a significant spark wherever the last connection is made.

The filter capacitors have a bleeder network attached, so they are constantly being discharged and the controller draws amps to keep them charged. However, the amp draw is only a couple dozen milliamps. Are you sure you ammeter is on an Amp scale rather than a Milliamps scale.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:25 PM   #4
diver6
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

Its a 2003 TXT, Manuf code A203, serial no. 1567935.

36 volt, Curtis PMC 73326G07.

It is lifted slightly with 10X10X20 wheels. Its in good shape and everything looks good.

I'm sure it was in DC amps as its a Fluke meter with only one DC amp scale.

This is the third set of battery's I've put in it in 3 years!! There has to be a problem somewhere just don't know where to start testing for it. Everything seems to work fine while in operation just kills battery's
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Old 10-01-2020, 01:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

Your cart is a 2003 TXT PDS. (Sepex drive)

Same as my cart except the year, before upgrades.

What model number Fluke meter?

I used a variety of Fluke meters over the years and don't remember and of their DMMs that can measure 20A. Maximum was 10A and you had to plug the red lead in a different jack to access that function.

I do remember you had to read the unit of measurement on the display in the auto-range modes, or you might misinterpret the reading. I was caught by the auto-range scales many time over the years, thinking I was reading Volts when the meter was displaying millivolts.

The reason I'm concerned about the meter and reading is the controller normally draws about 20 milliamps to keep the filter capacitors charge whenever the Run/Tow switch is in the Run position. Put the switch in the Tow position (or remover the 250Ω resistor from the solenoid's large terminals) and that amp draw ceases.

---------------
If the amp draw is actually 20A, remove all wires from the batteries except the heavy cables. Then start replacing them until you find what accessory is drawing the amps.

If there is only 20mA being drawn, then what charger is being used?
How often do you charge the pack?
What make/model of batteries in use and in past battery packs?

In Canada, you battery life should be longer than in warmer climates. (See attached map - Canada probably same as Alaska)
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Old 10-02-2020, 03:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

"It sparks" when connecting. Does it have a DC voltage converter? (Most all of them cause that, and not necessarily 'abnormal behavior'). Your battery life is quite abnormal for well-maintained batteries, but "it sparks" is just a symptom that may not necessarily lead to the cause.

Heres a question that will quickly clear up the "20 amp draw" thing- if you park the fully charged cart unused for 12 hours, are the batteries totally dead the next morning? If not, you dont have a "20a draw" going on (top-notch, good health golf cart batteries would be "just about dead" in that situation). A 20a load is just about perfect to "fully discharge" a good set of T-105 batteries to their specified capacity in 12 hours. (Not to perfect measured numbers, just extrapolating their capacity figures).

First thing to do is disconnect anything "not necessary" like lights, and see if that changes what's happening (not saying "you left the lights on", just have to start with the easiest things to eliminate as a potential parasite).

We are talking about a 2003 lifted txt, right?
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Old 10-02-2020, 11:24 AM   #7
diver6
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

JohnnieB is correct after looking at my testing again I had it in the right range but my leads were in the wrong position on the meter. I will retest tonight when I get to the trailer.

I usually leave it in the run position only switch it to tow if I had to tow it.

I believe they are the T-105's but will confirm tonight as well. It sits on the charger from Sunday to Friday night then we use it for the week end with casual driving around our campground. Usually by Saturday afternoon it is dying. Our camp is not big.

Yes it is lifted slightly not nearly as high as others, Yes its a 2003 TXT.

I will try and figure out how to post pics. I very much appreciate the help!!
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Old 10-02-2020, 12:34 PM   #8
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

Use the paperclip to attach pictures to your post. (See attachment-1)

Following along the same line cgtech was, According to the Trojan specs, the Capacity Minutes for a T-105 battery at a 25A discharge rate is 447 minutes.

There is a note referenced in the Capacity Minutes column on their Product Specification Guide on page-7 of the attached golf cart battery brochure.

Here is a cut-n-paste of that note: "A. The number of minutes a battery can deliver when discharged at a constant rate at 80°F (27°C) and maintain a voltage above 1.75 V/cell. Capacities are based on peak performance."

In other words, under environmentally controlled optimal conditions, carefully selected T-105 batteries can be discharged by a steady 25A for 7 Hours and 27 Minutes before the battery voltage decreases to 5.25V.

Since 20A is 80% of 25A, the capacity minutes @20A should be roughly 536 minutes or about 9 Hours.

Also your battery charger's max output is probable less than 20A, so it would never charge the batteries.

----------------
The cause of short battery life is very likely to be elsewhere.

If I understand your statements correctly, the cart is kept at your house during the week and transported to the campsite on weekends.

The batter charge is connected when cart is returned to your house, left on for the week and no charging is done at the campsite.

If that is correct, the reason for short battery life has been identified.
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File Type: pdf Golf cart batteries - 2017.pdf (2.48 MB, 0 views)
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:31 AM   #9
diver6
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Use the paperclip to attach pictures to your post. (See attachment-1)

Following along the same line cgtech was, According to the Trojan specs, the Capacity Minutes for a T-105 battery at a 25A discharge rate is 447 minutes.

There is a note referenced in the Capacity Minutes column on their Product Specification Guide on page-7 of the attached golf cart battery brochure.

Here is a cut-n-paste of that note: "A. The number of minutes a battery can deliver when discharged at a constant rate at 80°F (27°C) and maintain a voltage above 1.75 V/cell. Capacities are based on peak performance."

In other words, under environmentally controlled optimal conditions, carefully selected T-105 batteries can be discharged by a steady 25A for 7 Hours and 27 Minutes before the battery voltage decreases to 5.25V.

Since 20A is 80% of 25A, the capacity minutes @20A should be roughly 536 minutes or about 9 Hours.

Also your battery charger's max output is probable less than 20A, so it would never charge the batteries.

----------------
The cause of short battery life is very likely to be elsewhere.

If I understand your statements correctly, the cart is kept at your house during the week and transported to the campsite on weekends.

The batter charge is connected when cart is returned to your house, left on for the week and no charging is done at the campsite.

If that is correct, the reason for short battery life has been identified.
I don't quite understand your statement about charging, I charge it all week and use it on week ends but it should last more then a couple hours before charging again. I usually have to charge it every night to make it last the next day. If I was using it for golf I don't think it would last for 18 holes! I was wrong on the battery's they are T605's I don't know if they are better or worse then 105's.
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File Type: jpg Cart 1.jpg (82.3 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Cart 3.jpg (66.2 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Cart 4.jpg (67.9 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Cart 5.jpg (94.1 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Cart 2.jpg (65.7 KB, 0 views)
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Old 10-07-2020, 10:24 AM   #10
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Battery draw trouble shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by diver6 View Post
1. I don't quite understand your statement about charging,

2. I charge it all week and use it on week ends but it should last more then a couple hours before charging again.

3. I usually have to charge it every night to make it last the next day. If I was using it for golf I don't think it would last for 18 holes!

4. I was wrong on the battery's they are T605's I don't know if they are better or worse then 105's.
1. Most golf cart battery chargers stop charging once the charge cycle ends and don't restart until it is unplugged from the cart and plugged back in, so if the charger stays plugged into the cart all week, the batteries are self discharging for all the days that follow. Cart batteries typically self discharge at about 1% SoC per day, so you start the weekend at the campsite with a partially discharged battery pack. What is the make and model of the charger?

2. PDS carts typically draw an average of about 75A, so you only have about 105 minutes of runtime, or 1.75 hours of actual cart movement.

3. Maybe not.

4. T-605 batteries are the economy grade and only have 210AH while the standard grade T-105 has 225AH.

I also noticed there appears that the 36 V battery pack is tapped for 12V in two places. Tapping the battery pack to run 12V accessories imbalances the pack, shortens the cradle to grave lifespan and reduces runtime. 12V accessories ought to be powered by a separate 12V battery or a 36V to 12V voltage reducer, which drawn from all six batteries evenly.

-----------
To discover the battery pack's health, measure the pack voltage and individual battery voltages about 12 hours after charger shuts off.

Fully charged will be 38.2V for the pack and 6.37V for individual battery and each of the six 6V batteries ought to be with 0.1V of each other.

SoC chart for Trojan brand batteries attached.
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File Type: jpg SoC vs Voltage - Trojan Battery.JPG (56.9 KB, 0 views)
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