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Old 06-03-2021, 10:46 AM   #21
Bob-0
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Neither the MZJ400 solenoid coil nor its contacts are polarized, so they can be wired either way and work normally.
Ah makes sense. Alright, I’ll pull the controller. Seems we have pack voltage on the J4, Pin 1 (white wire) throttle switch, and when I jumped the car it did not move.

Strange how with a diode the car will move until it blows. Is that because the car is trying to bypass the bad “throttle switch contact in the controller”, and run the entire car by sending the amps through a bypass, ala the diode?
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Old 06-03-2021, 11:41 AM   #22
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Ah makes sense. Alright, I’ll pull the controller. Seems we have pack voltage on the J4, Pin 1 (white wire) throttle switch, and when I jumped the car it did not move.

Strange how with a diode the car will move until it blows. Is that because the car is trying to bypass the bad “throttle switch contact in the controller”, and run the entire car by sending the amps through a bypass, ala the diode?
We appear to be getting conflicting symptoms. If the solenoid isn't clicking and the cart moved when the pedal was pushed until the diode blew, it should have continued to move with the pedal pushed when the solenoid was made to click by jumping B- to the blue wire.
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Old 06-03-2021, 12:03 PM   #23
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We appear to be getting conflicting symptoms. If the solenoid isn't clicking and the cart moved when the pedal was pushed until the diode blew, it should have continued to move with the pedal pushed when the solenoid was made to click by jumping B- to the blue wire.
The only difference was that I had the diode off when I jumped it from the battery pack neg to the blue wire.

I’ll charge it as perhaps the controller was programmed for the bottom voltage to be fairly high, as that’s the only other difference besides the diode being off the solenoid when I jumped it.

I didn’t grab my laptop on the way out today so I’ll see about bringing it in tomorrow.
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Old 06-03-2021, 01:28 PM   #24
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Not sure if it helps any, but when I press the pedal down the controller side of the solenoid will drop to 28v and lower.

After charging the car, I jumpered the solenoid again, and the vehicle moves now.
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Old 06-03-2021, 04:56 PM   #25
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Not sure if it helps any, but when I press the pedal down the controller side of the solenoid will drop to 28v and lower.

After charging the car, I jumpered the solenoid again, and the vehicle moves now.
Great, now it is responding as anticipated.

When you measure the voltage on the solenoid's controller side large terminal, you are effectively measuring the voltage on about a Farad of capacitors located between the controller's B- and B+ terminals. During normal operation, the battery pack is connected to these capacitors via the solenoid's closed contacts, so the amps drawn by the motor are replenished almost as fast as the motor can draw them. When the solenoid contacts are not closed, the capacitors are charged via J1 Pin-5 at a much slower rate since there is a current limiting resistor between J1 Pin-5 and the capacitors. When the solenoid doesn't click (close the contacts) the motor draws amps faster then J1 Pin-5 can replenish them very fast, so the voltage at the B+ terminal drops, eventually down to nearly 0V.
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:25 PM   #26
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Great, now it is responding as anticipated.

When you measure the voltage on the solenoid's controller side large terminal, you are effectively measuring the voltage on about a Farad of capacitors located between the controller's B- and B+ terminals. During normal operation, the battery pack is connected to these capacitors via the solenoid's closed contacts, so the amps drawn by the motor are replenished almost as fast as the motor can draw them. When the solenoid contacts are not closed, the capacitors are charged via J1 Pin-5 at a much slower rate since there is a current limiting resistor between J1 Pin-5 and the capacitors. When the solenoid doesn't click (close the contacts) the motor draws amps faster then J1 Pin-5 can replenish them very fast, so the voltage at the B+ terminal drops, eventually down to nearly 0V.

Oh wonderful explanation thank you so much! That makes sense and is easy to understand!

I suspect I should dig up the floorboard and test the accelerator microswitch in this case?
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Old 06-04-2021, 08:57 AM   #27
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I was also curious, is there a way to tell if a solenoid is polarized by its appearance, or is it just knowledge of brands and type?
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Old 06-04-2021, 10:01 AM   #28
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Pulled up the floor and tested the ACC microswitch. I have continuity when the switch is closed. I’m getting 2.14v into the switch as well, measured between the red and green microswitch wires. I tested the key switch and it has battery pack voltage on both sides when in the on position. Checked the rocker switch FNR and it had 1.2v on the orange wire (forward) reverse does not work.

Not sure what I’m missing
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Old 06-04-2021, 12:01 PM   #29
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Default Re: Question

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Originally Posted by Bob-0 View Post
I was also curious, is there a way to tell if a solenoid is polarized by its appearance, or is it just knowledge of brands and type?
They typically have a "+" or a"-" sign near the polarized terminal.

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Originally Posted by Bob-0 View Post
Pulled up the floor and tested the ACC microswitch. I have continuity when the switch is closed. I’m getting 2.14v into the switch as well, measured between the red and green microswitch wires. I tested the key switch and it has battery pack voltage on both sides when in the on position. Checked the rocker switch FNR and it had 1.2v on the orange wire (forward) reverse does not work.

Not sure what I’m missing
The voltage in and out of all the switches ought to be the same as the battery pack voltage (or very close to it), so there is an open or very high resistance someplace between the output of the keyswitch and the input to the pedal switch.

Attached is a drawing showing the control voltage paths to and from the switches and through the stock PDS controller, plus an edited version of that drawing with the suspected voltage paths through the PDS version of the XCT controller (Keyswitch does not loose power when F/R is in N). In either case, the pedal switch input is in parallel with the yellow wire on the solenoid coil. So if you're getting full pack voltage on the yellow wire, and not on the pedal switch input, the problem is narrowed down to J4 pin/jack connections, one wire and its connections at the switch.

Also attached are continuity check for an XCT-PDS.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Voltage paths to solenpoid highlighted.jpg (143.3 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpeg Suspected voltage paths in a XCT-PDS.jpeg (141.3 KB, 0 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DOC115-001-A-DWG-XCT-CONT-CHECK-2.pdf (751.7 KB, 0 views)
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Old 06-04-2021, 01:29 PM   #30
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I had pack voltage going into the pedal switch. I measured the red and green wires with the negative probe on the green pedal switch wire and the positive probe on the red wire and tats how I got the 2.4v measurement. I do get pack voltage in on the red wire and then after microswitch activation I get pack voltage on the green wire as well. So I’m getting pack voltage through the pedal switch.

I do see a lot of corrosion on the 10 pin connector and the controller as well.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6939193E-7F3C-43B0-81DB-549DED73573F.jpg (141.2 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg 689E097A-43B0-4FB8-8183-AE159B04F81E.jpg (169.1 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg DF078D4D-112B-4C20-AD8F-59834E7BF636.jpg (110.7 KB, 0 views)
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