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Old 11-24-2022, 12:19 PM   #11
augiedoggy
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

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Originally Posted by bevelsport View Post
All measure 12.98v with my Fluke 87V.
Thats about 30% state of charge if I rememeber right..
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Old 11-24-2022, 01:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

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Originally Posted by augiedoggy View Post
Thats about 30% state of charge if I rememeber right..
You are correct.
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Old 11-24-2022, 03:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

With LiFePO4, you can’t tell state of charge by voltage. 12.98v could be anywhere from 30% to 80% depending on charge voltage.

A bit more info please bevelsport. Does the charger even try to charge? That is, does it start charging then quickly turn green or doesn’t it even try to charge? The 12.98v you state, is that without the charger connected? If it is, what is the voltage on each battery with the charger connected and showing a green LED.
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Old 11-24-2022, 04:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

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Originally Posted by Pat911 View Post
With LiFePO4, you can’t tell state of charge by voltage. 12.98v could be anywhere from 30% to 80% depending on charge voltage.

A bit more info please bevelsport. Does the charger even try to charge? That is, does it start charging then quickly turn green or doesn’t it even try to charge? The 12.98v you state, is that without the charger connected? If it is, what is the voltage on each battery with the charger connected and showing a green LED.


Took the words out of my mouth
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Old 11-24-2022, 05:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

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Originally Posted by Pat911 View Post
With LiFePO4, you can’t tell state of charge by voltage. 12.98v could be anywhere from 30% to 80% depending on charge voltage.

A bit more info please bevelsport. Does the charger even try to charge? That is, does it start charging then quickly turn green or doesn’t it even try to charge? The 12.98v you state, is that without the charger connected? If it is, what is the voltage on each battery with the charger connected and showing a green LED.
That doesn't coincide with my understanding of it . If the voltage was measured without a load on it as in this case I don't see how it could be at 80% state of charge. 4-"4.2v" lifepo4 cells normally are 3.65 volts at full charge (meaning most out of the box lifepo4 batteries with built in chargers are designed to charge the cells to 3.65v each regardless of opinions, that is the industry standard especially for non DIY batteries). heres a simple chart I grabbed from the lifepo4 section of the diy solar forum.
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Old 11-24-2022, 10:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

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That doesn't coincide with my understanding of it . If the voltage was measured without a load on it as in this case I don't see how it could be at 80% state of charge. 4-"4.2v" lifepo4 cells normally are 3.65 volts at full charge (meaning most out of the box lifepo4 batteries with built in chargers are designed to charge the cells to 3.65v each regardless of opinions, that is the industry standard especially for non DIY batteries). heres a simple chart I grabbed from the lifepo4 section of the diy solar forum.
Augiedoggy, I've seen that chart a thousand times and at best it is a gross generalisation and at worst it is wrong. You cannot predict SOC for LiFePO4 from voltage.

LiFePo4 cells are not 4.2v. They are 3.2v nominal with an absolute maximum charge voltage of 3.65. You can fully charge (well above 99% anyhow) a LiFePO4 cell with as little as 3.45v. The cells with then settle to about 3.35v. LiFePO4 has a very flat discharge curve and depending on the cell, 3.245v (12.98/4) can be anywhere from 30% to 80% SOC.

Cheers
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Old 11-24-2022, 10:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

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Augiedoggy, I've seen that chart a thousand times and at best it is a gross generalisation and at worst it is wrong. You cannot predict SOC for LiFePO4 from voltage.

LiFePo4 cells are not 4.2v. They are 3.2v nominal with an absolute maximum charge voltage of 3.65. You can fully charge (well above 99% anyhow) a LiFePO4 cell with as little as 3.45v. The cells with then settle to about 3.35v. LiFePO4 has a very flay discharge curve and depending on the cell, 3.245v (12.98/4) can be anywhere from 30% to 80% SOC.

Cheers
Pat.
While
I agree that 3.65v is the max you should safely charge a lifepo4 cell I've read they are technically 4.2v cell as nmc are generally 4.7 V here's an article I just found with a quick Google search. https://www.evworks.com.au/page/tech...-lithium-batt/

I've also read that charging above 3.65 can damage the cells and degrade battery life.
It's interesting that the OP / owner of these batteries agreed that the batteries were at about 30% charge.. perhaps he has some sort of battery meter that reinforces this belief?
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Old 11-25-2022, 12:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

You will be OVERCHARGING a LiFePO4 cell if you charge them to 4.2v. Because LiFePO4 is forgiving, it can be "safely?" charged to 4.2v. It is still overcharging and the standard consensus is to not charge beyond 3.65v. The data that is published about cell life etc. is all based upon a maximum charge voltage of 3.65v, anything beyond this will quickly reduce service life.

Please don't derail this thread as we're trying to help bevelsport with his problem.

My point about the variation in SOC was to imply that even though the batteries are the same voltage, they may still be out of balance. Allied 12v series connected batteries are notorious for this. Many members here will attest to that. Hopefully bevelsport will come back with more information.
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Old 11-25-2022, 01:38 AM   #19
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

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Originally Posted by Pat911 View Post
You will be OVERCHARGING a LiFePO4 cell if you charge them to 4.2v. Because LiFePO4 is forgiving, it can be "safely?" charged to 4.2v. It is still overcharging and the standard consensus is to not charge beyond 3.65v. The data that is published about cell life etc. is all based upon a maximum charge voltage of 3.65v, anything beyond this will quickly reduce service life.

Please don't derail this thread as we're trying to help bevelsport with his problem.

My point about the variation in SOC was to imply that even though the batteries are the same voltage, they may still be out of balance. Allied 12v series connected batteries are notorious for this. Many members here will attest to that. Hopefully bevelsport will come back with more information.
This is exactly true.

And beyond that, we’re still assuming 30% measuring by voltage. It’s also well known due to the extremely flat discharge curve of lifepo4 that you can NOT estimate SOC based on voltage alone. A shunt style meter counting electrons flowing out of, and back into the battery is necessary for an accurate measurement.

So back to OP more information on exactly what is happening please. Trying to determine if the charger is acting up, the batteries are out of balance, or maybe whatever voltage reading you see isn’t really 30% but the charger is working as it should and the pack is actually fully charged…

I’d also ask how the pack behaved before all of this happened, to have a basis of comparison or is this a cart you’ve recently purchased with this set up.
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Old 11-25-2022, 09:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: Allied Lifepo 48v charger status LED remains green

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat911 View Post
With LiFePO4, you can’t tell state of charge by voltage. 12.98v could be anywhere from 30% to 80% depending on charge voltage.

A bit more info please bevelsport. Does the charger even try to charge? That is, does it start charging then quickly turn green or doesn’t it even try to charge? The 12.98v you state, is that without the charger connected? If it is, what is the voltage on each battery with the charger connected and showing a green LED.
The charger does not initiate a charge when first hooked up. 12.98 is without the charger connected. The LED is green when disconnected or connected.
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