1986 G1 Must Choke To Run

EBG · 09-04-2009, 08:11 AM

I have an '86 G1, just purchased, pretty rough. Problem is, to get started, I have to choke, no matter if it is warm or cold. Then in order to keep running I have to feather the choke on and off. Plus it has very little power. I figure not getting enough gas. I have sripped carb and cleaned needle and seat/jets. I have replaced fuel pump with used one. When I check the carb it has gas in the bowl, but could it not be getting enough from the pump? Thanks for the help!!

Katshot · 09-04-2009, 08:27 AM

Sounds like a clogged jet or passage in the carb. It's simply not getting enough fuel to manage a proper Air/Fuel ratio. You Choke it, which reduces the amount of air getting to the engine, and that is allowing the engine to run because it's at least managing a reasonable Air/Fuel ratio. Problem is there's not enough total flow to support anything more than minimal power output.
Also possible there's a vacuum leak that's letting unmetered air into the engine.

TheNewGuy · 09-04-2009, 08:46 AM

You need new crank seals.

EBG · 09-04-2009, 09:21 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. TheNewGUY, I'm not sure I follow, can you explain why the crank seals? Also, I checked the compression and it is 100 lbs. Is that a little low? Can case seals effect fuel pump performance?

KatShot, I've cleaned the jets and needle/seat, but the needle valve still seems a little hard to blow through with the needle in. However, with the needle completely out it allows air to pass much easier. Can you think of any other vacuum leaks for unmetered air other than the rubber intake manifold?

Thanks for all the help guys, you dudes rule.

TheNewGuy · 09-04-2009, 10:29 AM

The fuel pump works on pressure (push / pull) created by the engine. If the seals are leaking you are loosing pressure and will have weak fuel flow from the fuel pump. By keeping the choke pulled you are reducing air flow and the engine will run on less fuel. Worn crank shaft seal are a common problem, replace them and you will be good to go for many years.

Katshot · 09-04-2009, 12:21 PM

The fuel pump only makes sure the carburetor bowl has fuel. From there, it's simple physics that draws the fuel into the engine via the carburetor passages. If the bowl is full, the pump is doing its job. Besides, the engine's fuel requirements at or near idle is relatively low, meaning that a weak fuel pump would initially show up first as fuel starving the engine at higher throttle angles only. In cases like this, it usually turns out to be some type of restriction in the carb but, it's also possible that there is unmetered air (vacuum leak) getting into the engine.

EBG · 09-04-2009, 02:05 PM

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the info. I may try and run an old outboard motor gas tank gravity feed just for kicks to see if engine improves. One more question. Does the oil pump work only off of the vacuum line from the muffler? When I disconnect the oil line from the carb, I am not seeing any flow. I have been pre-mixing at about 80:1 just in case. Any suggestions on parts supplier for the crank seal? One of the site sponsors?

smallblock450sl · 09-05-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBG

Thanks for the suggestions. TheNewGUY, I'm not sure I follow, can you explain why the crank seals? Also, I checked the compression and it is 100 lbs. Is that a little low? Can case seals effect fuel pump performance?

KatShot, I've cleaned the jets and needle/seat, but the needle valve still seems a little hard to blow through with the needle in. However, with the needle completely out it allows air to pass much easier. Can you think of any other vacuum leaks for unmetered air other than the rubber intake manifold?

Thanks for all the help guys, you dudes rule.

The 100 lbs compression reading is the minimun for that year engine. New should be 120 lbs. I agree...crank seals and maybe rering it. Good luck Dave

lobo · 09-18-2009, 10:35 AM

Sounds like crank seals to me

EBG · 09-18-2009, 12:47 PM

Thanks. I have pulled the engine and I am currently making a puller for the inner side of the clutch. From the amount of old oil around the flywheel, I am pretty sure the seal on that side was toast. I can't belive that it ran at all after seeing how bad that seal was. I'm probably going to go ahead and re-ring it also while I have it out. Thanks for the help guys.

09-04-2009, 08:11 AM	#1
EBG Not Yet Wild Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 14	1986 G1 Must Choke To Run I have an '86 G1, just purchased, pretty rough. Problem is, to get started, I have to choke, no matter if it is warm or cold. Then in order to keep running I have to feather the choke on and off. Plus it has very little power. I figure not getting enough gas. I have sripped carb and cleaned needle and seat/jets. I have replaced fuel pump with used one. When I check the carb it has gas in the bowl, but could it not be getting enough from the pump? Thanks for the help!!

09-04-2009, 08:27 AM	#2
Katshot Getting Wild Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 116	Re: 1986 G1 Must Choke To Run Sounds like a clogged jet or passage in the carb. It's simply not getting enough fuel to manage a proper Air/Fuel ratio. You Choke it, which reduces the amount of air getting to the engine, and that is allowing the engine to run because it's at least managing a reasonable Air/Fuel ratio. Problem is there's not enough total flow to support anything more than minimal power output. Also possible there's a vacuum leak that's letting unmetered air into the engine.
Katshot Getting Wild Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 116

09-04-2009, 08:46 AM	#3
TheNewGuy Admin/Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 18,052	Re: 1986 G1 Must Choke To Run You need new crank seals.
	Ron PLEASE VISIT Our Sponsors * BGW GEAR The Store The G2 Project * Swing Arm Drop & Repair * Geep1 Project

09-04-2009, 09:21 AM	#4
EBG Not Yet Wild Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 14	Re: 1986 G1 Must Choke To Run Thanks for the suggestions. TheNewGUY, I'm not sure I follow, can you explain why the crank seals? Also, I checked the compression and it is 100 lbs. Is that a little low? Can case seals effect fuel pump performance? KatShot, I've cleaned the jets and needle/seat, but the needle valve still seems a little hard to blow through with the needle in. However, with the needle completely out it allows air to pass much easier. Can you think of any other vacuum leaks for unmetered air other than the rubber intake manifold? Thanks for all the help guys, you dudes rule.

09-04-2009, 10:29 AM	#5
TheNewGuy Admin/Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 18,052	Re: 1986 G1 Must Choke To Run The fuel pump works on pressure (push / pull) created by the engine. If the seals are leaking you are loosing pressure and will have weak fuel flow from the fuel pump. By keeping the choke pulled you are reducing air flow and the engine will run on less fuel. Worn crank shaft seal are a common problem, replace them and you will be good to go for many years.
	Ron PLEASE VISIT Our Sponsors * BGW GEAR The Store The G2 Project * Swing Arm Drop & Repair * Geep1 Project

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09-04-2009, 12:21 PM	#6
Katshot Getting Wild Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 116	Re: 1986 G1 Must Choke To Run The fuel pump only makes sure the carburetor bowl has fuel. From there, it's simple physics that draws the fuel into the engine via the carburetor passages. If the bowl is full, the pump is doing its job. Besides, the engine's fuel requirements at or near idle is relatively low, meaning that a weak fuel pump would initially show up first as fuel starving the engine at higher throttle angles only. In cases like this, it usually turns out to be some type of restriction in the carb but, it's also possible that there is unmetered air (vacuum leak) getting into the engine.
Katshot Getting Wild Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 116

09-04-2009, 02:05 PM	#7
EBG Not Yet Wild Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 14	Re: 1986 G1 Must Choke To Run Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the info. I may try and run an old outboard motor gas tank gravity feed just for kicks to see if engine improves. One more question. Does the oil pump work only off of the vacuum line from the muffler? When I disconnect the oil line from the carb, I am not seeing any flow. I have been pre-mixing at about 80:1 just in case. Any suggestions on parts supplier for the crank seal? One of the site sponsors?

09-18-2009, 10:35 AM	#9
lobo Gone Wild Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sand Springs,Ok Posts: 873	Re: 1986 G1 Must Choke To Run Sounds like crank seals to me

09-18-2009, 12:47 PM	#10
EBG Not Yet Wild Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 14	Re: 1986 G1 Must Choke To Run Thanks. I have pulled the engine and I am currently making a puller for the inner side of the clutch. From the amount of old oil around the flywheel, I am pretty sure the seal on that side was toast. I can't belive that it ran at all after seeing how bad that seal was. I'm probably going to go ahead and re-ring it also while I have it out. Thanks for the help guys.

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