03 PDS resurrection

[scottyb]

The pedal box red wire (to solenoid small post) should not see 36v until the pedal micro switch closes (pedal down) and the green wire is connected to the red.

Disconnect the other wires on the same post as the red wire at the solenoid and see which one is supplying this 36v(+)

[JohnnieB]

Scotty, It's a PDS.

J4 Pin-2 (Red wire) is the voltage source from the controller to the pedal microswitch, so it should read pack voltage when Run/Tow is in Run, Key is ON and a direction is selected on F/R. J4 Pin-1 is the switched leg back to the controller, it should be zero with pedal up and pack voltage with pedal down.

I'm concerned about the pack voltage dropping from 37.5V to ~36V when the controller powers up and down to 35V when the pedal is pushed. That sounds like some really bad batteries, or bad connections between battery pack and J1 Pins 4 & 5.

Check voltage on J1 Pin-4 and Pin-5 with Run/Tow in Run, Key ON and a direction selected on F/R and with pedal up and pedal down.

Also check the pack voltage under the same conditions.

If the pack voltage drops to 35V, the batteries are bad.
If the voltage at Pin 4 or 5 drops to 35V, it is wiring or switch contacts (Reed and/or Run/Tow switch)

[scottyb]

[QUOTE=JohnnieB;1076609]Scotty, It's a PDS.

Ohhh I'll go back to sleep

[fingers]

Thanks anyways, Scottyb

JohnnieB,

Yes I am pretty sure the battery pack is bad. I bought the cart from a guy that didn't have a charger so I know the batteries hadn't been charged in well over a year. I borrowed a charger as I still don't have one and got the batteries over 38v initially. The cart hasn't run and I was hoping to have enough battery to at least figure out why it won't run before I dump a bunch more money into it. I will be upgrading to either 42v or 48v, leaning towards 42v on Scotty's advice. So I haven't bought a 36v charger yet.

I checked all four pins again, Run, key ON and in FWD.

Pedal up:

Pin 1 0v
Pin 2 36v
Pin 3 0.85v
Pin 4 13.8v

Pedal down:

Pin 1 35v
Pin 2 35v
Pin 3 2.66v
Pin 4 13.2v


Am I wasting all of our time trying to trouble shoot the cart with a battery pack in its current state? I was hoping to at least see if the controller was good or not before I pull it out to replace it with one of Scottyb's packages. I'd hate to spend all the money on a new controller etc. and still not have the cart run due to some other factor. That is why I'd really like to make it run before I put the new parts in.

[kgsc]

Just as a note, if you are changing up to 42 volts and need the batteries anyway, changing the batts, controller, solenoid.. There isn't much left ..

[JohnnieB]

One thing is for sure, you need new batteries.

The controller might be good; Or it might be bad.

If you are planning to go to 42V with a controller/solenoid package from Scotty, you can check the stock PDS system using six of the seven batteries.
If the PDS controller is in fact good, you might be able to sell it on the BGW parts forum and offset some of the upgrade expenses.

[fingers]

kgsc, that is a good point. Especially when I have a new wiring harness to put in it as well.

JohnnieB, that is true. That would be one more reason to go 42v vs going to a 6 8v system. Are there any reasons why I should go to a 48v vs. 42v system? I was leaning towards 48 for the extra torque and speed and less battery weight and cost of an extra battery. Range is not a huge issue. Passenger load and hills(paved or dirt paths) are.

Is there anything that can be determined from the readings I am getting now?

Are the voltages dropping low enough to prevent the controller from letting the cart run?

In any case it sounds like I'll be giving Scottyb a call sooner rather than later.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by fingers

1. kgsc, that is a good point. Especially when I have a new wiring harness to put in it as well.

2. JohnnieB, that is true. That would be one more reason to go 42v vs going to a 6 8v system. Are there any reasons why I should go to a 48v vs. 42v system? I was leaning towards 48 for the extra torque and speed and less battery weight and cost of an extra battery. Range is not a huge issue. Passenger load and hills(paved or dirt paths) are.

3. Is there anything that can be determined from the readings I am getting now?

4. Are the voltages dropping low enough to prevent the controller from letting the cart run?

5. In any case it sounds like I'll be giving Scottyb a call sooner rather than later.

1. With new batteries, controller, solenoid and control wiring harness, there is only a few switches, the motor and the high current cables to replace to have a completely new drive system electrically.

2. I went with seven 6V-245AH batteries for range, but got speed and torque also. 48V will give you more speed and torque, but on stock height tires (18"), 42V will spin a stock motor at about 6500RPM and that is about as fast as it ought to be spun. Taller tires take more torque to turn as well as reducing the torque where the rubber meets the road (Taller tire change the final drive ratio), so the cart might go faster without the motor spinning as fast and 48V might not over-rev it.

As for expense, 7x6V may be cheaper than 6x8V since 8V batteries cost more than 6V batteries.

Also, the useful life of a battery is a function of the average SoC maintained, which is in turn a function of the storage capacity of the battery pack in kWh (kilo-Watt-hours). A standard 36V pack (6x6V-225AH) and a 6X8V-170AH 48V pack have roughly the same kWh or storage, so they have about the same range and battery life expectancy, but a 7x6v-225AH battery pack will have about 17% more of both.

There is no easy answer, pack voltage is part of the overall system, so without knowing what the end system will be, it is only a guess.

3. Without good batteries, a few possibilities can be eliminated, but the controller cannot be proven good.

4. Maybe. What is the pack voltage after the solenoid clicks and the paedal is on floor?

5.

[kgsc]

Just as an option, do you have access to another 36 volt cart ? If so, some fancy wiring, safety glasses and a set of jumper cables can give you an idea of your controller status.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by JohnnieB

1. With new batteries, controller, solenoid and control wiring harness, there is only a few switches, the motor and the high current cables to replace to have a completely new drive system electrically.

2. I went with seven 6V-245AH batteries for range, but got speed and torque also. 48V will give you more speed and torque, but on stock height tires (18"), 42V will spin a stock motor at about 6500RPM and that is about as fast as it ought to be spun. Taller tires take more torque to turn as well as reducing the torque where the rubber meets the road (Taller tire change the final drive ratio), so the cart might go faster without the motor spinning as fast and 48V might not over-rev it.

As for expense, 7x6V may be cheaper than 6x8V since 8V batteries cost more than 6V batteries.

Also, the useful life of a battery is a function of the average SoC maintained, which is in turn a function of the storage capacity of the battery pack in kWh (kilo-Watt-hours). A standard 36V pack (6x6V-225AH) and a 6X8V-170AH 48V pack have roughly the same kWh or storage, so they have about the same range and battery life expectancy, but a 7x6v-225AH battery pack will have about 17% more of both.

There is no easy answer, pack voltage is part of the overall system, so without knowing what the end system will be, it is only a guess.

3. Without good batteries, a few possibilities can be eliminated, but the controller cannot be proven good.

4. Maybe. What is the pack voltage after the solenoid clicks and the paedal is on floor?

5.

Pack voltage stays the same, 37.55v pedal up and pedal to the floor after the solenoid clicks.

I do plan on staying with stock sized tires, at least for the time being, again on Scotty's advice. And a 2 ga. cable set is going to be in my order. I jumped the motor using the instructions I found here and the motor does turn so I should be in good shape when I get the parts from Scotty and the new batteries. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.

Can you program the controller to limit rpm? That would be another option to prevent over-speeding the motor but keeping the torque gains and some speed of going to 48v would it not?

I'm still on the fence regarding 42 vs 48 volts. I "think" I need the extra torque and less weight of 48v since I really don't need the extra range but I don't know if the difference is worth worrying about. The extra range and particularly the extra battery life would be nice as well as being able to test my old controller if the torque of the 42v system is enough for me. I'll be carrying as much as 4 adults and a couple of kids around on mostly flat ground or two adults and maybe one or two kids around the neighborhood which is fairly hilly. All paved but pretty steep in places.

kgsc, I do have access to another cart at a friends place, but I'd hate to risk damaging that one just to check my controller. I think I will wait to get the new batteries and cables and try it then. Unless I decide to go 48v of course. In that case, I'll have to come up with plan B to test it.