1993 Club Car DS, Engine Won't turn over with Spark Plug

[robbiescd]

I have overhauled a 1993 club car DS...new piston, rings, seals, cylinder bored, ect. I mounted the engine back on the cart, installed new battery, connected belts, ect. The starter will not turn over the engine with both valves in the closed position. It will turn over fine if the spark plug is out, but with the spark plug in, it stops.

I took the motor back out, broke it down again, made sure everthing was lubed and alligned correctly. Installed starter on top of motor and had motor on work bench. Connected jumper cables directly to starter and same result, although this time, the starter eventually (after about 3 seconds) was able to turn the motor over. Checked compression and it's at 150. Valve clearance has been checked and set to .005.

In addition, I've also taken the starter apart, and visually, everything looks fine. There seemed to be an excessive amount of carbon residue, but the brushes looked fine.

It seems like the starter is turning with more "power" with the battery hooked directly to the starter versus being mounted in the cart.

I am about to reinstall the motor in the car, but don't want it to do the same thing once installed.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I'd rather do the work on the motor while I already have it on the bench rather than mounting in the frame and then taking it back out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[invalidsession]

Originally Posted by robbiescd

I have overhauled a 1993 club car DS...new piston, rings, seals, cylinder bored, ect. I mounted the engine back on the cart, installed new battery, connected belts, ect. The starter will not turn over the engine with both valves in the closed position. It will turn over fine if the spark plug is out, but with the spark plug in, it stops.

I took the motor back out, broke it down again, made sure everthing was lubed and alligned correctly. Installed starter on top of motor and had motor on work bench. Connected jumper cables directly to starter and same result, although this time, the starter eventually (after about 3 seconds) was able to turn the motor over. Checked compression and it's at 150. Valve clearance has been checked and set to .005.

In addition, I've also taken the starter apart, and visually, everything looks fine. There seemed to be an excessive amount of carbon residue, but the brushes looked fine.

It seems like the starter is turning with more "power" with the battery hooked directly to the starter versus being mounted in the cart.

I am about to reinstall the motor in the car, but don't want it to do the same thing once installed.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I'd rather do the work on the motor while I already have it on the bench rather than mounting in the frame and then taking it back out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm curious, how did you check the compression ? I assume it was while it was on the bench ? If everything was assembled and lubricated properly the starter should have no problem turning it over off of the battery. Are all the ground wires clean and tight ? I've had instances in the past where the timing has been so far off that the spark occurs too early and tries to drive the piston back down as the starter is trying to bring it up and thus creating an impasse. Those were in cars however but you might want to recheck your valve timing just in case.
Whatever you discover, please post it up for others to learn from.
Good luck

Chris.

[robbiescd]

It was on the bench when I checked the compression. I was unable to do so while it was mounted in the cart (it wouldn't turn over). Keep in mind, it turns over fine until it gets to the point that both valves are closed and the piston is on the down stroke. I could put my finger over the spark plug hole and it's like it would create a vacuum lock and nearly suck my finger down the spark plug hole.

After I took it apart and reassembled everything, the starter was able to turn it over....but it took a while for the starter to actually get it started. Meaning the starter would not move for about 3 seconds, then it would start.

I don't know if it's because everything is new??? Just hasn't "broken in"? But it seems like the starter was turning faster (or stronger) with the battery connected directly to the starter.

The timing should be correct. The cam shaft has the arrow and the crankshaft has the dot. I just matched the two together. The only thing I forgot to look at was to see if the key was broken on the crankshaft (which would make the timing off). But I just don't think that's the issue.

Without the head on, you can spin the flywheel easily. It's not until you put the spark plug in the head that the problem happens.

I haven't even made it to the point of fuel and firing (although the spark plug does fire).

[invalidsession]

Originally Posted by robbiescd

It was on the bench when I checked the compression. I was unable to do so while it was mounted in the cart (it wouldn't turn over). Keep in mind, it turns over fine until it gets to the point that both valves are closed and the piston is on the down stroke. I could put my finger over the spark plug hole and it's like it would create a vacuum lock and nearly suck my finger down the spark plug hole.

After I took it apart and reassembled everything, the starter was able to turn it over....but it took a while for the starter to actually get it started. Meaning the starter would not move for about 3 seconds, then it would start.

I don't know if it's because everything is new??? Just hasn't "broken in"? But it seems like the starter was turning faster (or stronger) with the battery connected directly to the starter.

The timing should be correct. The cam shaft has the arrow and the crankshaft has the dot. I just matched the two together. The only thing I forgot to look at was to see if the key was broken on the crankshaft (which would make the timing off). But I just don't think that's the issue.

Without the head on, you can spin the flywheel easily. It's not until you put the spark plug in the head that the problem happens.

I haven't even made it to the point of fuel and firing (although the spark plug does fire).

That's a normal part of it's cycle on the power stroke, both valves closed as the piston descends. When it's all hooked up, the spark from the plug drives the piston down. An engine is just an air pump in reality. I suppose you have checked for correct valve operation and clearance at this point ? Since you are able to get the motor to spin from an outside source and given that it maybe a little tight due to the new components, I would be having a very close look for a bad ground somewhere on the motor or chassis and it can't hurt to have the battery checked. It wouldn't be the first time someone got a bad battery straight from the box so to speak.

Chris.

[simple man]

As far as your starter turning better when jumped, you have a voltage drop in your starter circuit somewhere. Check your cables and their connections. Make sure your grounds are good also. You can do a voltage drop test on each cable and the solenoid to determine where the fault is. Now, to the not turning with the spark plug installed. Did you have the cylinder head shaved? If so, in addition to having the cylinder bored, the compression may be to high. I'm not sure on these engines, but on some there is a thicker head gasket used for this purpose. Someone with more experience with this particular engine, I'm sure will know. Go through your starter circuit tests and by that time someone can help with the engine particulars! By the way, just so we'll know, did the cart run before the overhaul? That can make a difference.

[robbiescd]

Thanks everyone for the replies! As to the cart running before I got it....I think it did, but the owner said it smoked. It sat in someones front yard for years without being run. I just kindof stumbled on it and was able to trade for it for next to nothing.

As for the cylinder head being shaved, I don't really know. I purchased an oversized piston and had the machine shop bore to accomodate the new piston. With the piston came new rings.

I have not checked the ground wires, so that may very well be the issue. This is not the first time I've heard this, just haven't had a chance to get new ground wires.

And I did have the battery checked. I took it back to the store (local parts store) and he verified it was still good.

Looks like everything may be pointing to a faulty ground wire and newness of the components. I'll reinstall and check all the specs you all have mentioned.

I am new to the forum as of today, and I must say, I am extremely impressed with the comments that have been left.

Thanks again and if anyone else has any comments, please leave them. This is the first time for me to break into engine, so needless to say, I have learned a tremendous amount!

[ckiguy]

Originally Posted by robbiescd

Thanks everyone for the replies! As to the cart running before I got it....I think it did, but the owner said it smoked. It sat in someones front yard for years without being run. I just kindof stumbled on it and was able to trade for it for next to nothing.

As for the cylinder head being shaved, I don't really know. I purchased an oversized piston and had the machine shop bore to accomodate the new piston. With the piston came new rings.

I have not checked the ground wires, so that may very well be the issue. This is not the first time I've heard this, just haven't had a chance to get new ground wires.

And I did have the battery checked. I took it back to the store (local parts store) and he verified it was still good.

Looks like everything may be pointing to a faulty ground wire and newness of the components. I'll reinstall and check all the specs you all have mentioned.

I am new to the forum as of today, and I must say, I am extremely impressed with the comments that have been left.

Thanks again and if anyone else has any comments, please leave them. This is the first time for me to break into engine, so needless to say, I have learned a tremendous amount!

robbie welcome to bgw! just rember your ground wires are only as goood as yere connections! pull the connection off the frame and clean both the wire end and the frame end with a buffer pad! if it shine its clean! or you will know its clean by the amount of corrosion.
also pwr goes to the weakest link(biggest wire) or path of least restantance! so if you notice you ground wire from battery to frame is a 3 0r a 4 gauge wire, not a 16 gauge wire! and dont think 4 or 5 16 gauge wires bunched together will do the same thing! if it not there, spind a fer bucks and make sure theres a ground wire from engine to frame! and endure they have clean contacts and mating surfaces too!
this is the biggest starting problem i find a t work for a major fleet of 15k semi trucks, bad connections! bad grounds are a mofo!

[robbiescd]

Thanks for the advice! I put the engine back into the cart and it turned over! I'm still going to purchase and install new ground wires....just to be safe.

Now I just need to put carb on it and see if it will burn some fuel.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I'll let ya'll know if she fires off!

[robbiescd]

Hooked up gas, fired up but have a MAJOR oil leak. Unable to see where the leak is coming from. It's coming from the flywheel side of the motor and it pours out when the motor is running. I suspect it's the oil pump gasket.

[HGC2010]

Crank seal may be leaking.