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Old 09-28-2010, 05:41 PM   #1
BrewCityMusic
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Default One last try, then I just quit !!!

The 88 2PG is still doing it - It'll start and run great, and as long as I drive short runs and/or vary the throttle while driving, it's fine. When I try and go over 1/2 mile at speed, it will suddenly lose RPM's and power and die. If it sits for a minute, it'll fire up and I can limp it almost anywhere at barely more than an idle, but no more - also, after sitting for 15 min or so it'll fire right up and run great.

I checked the clutches (fine) and actually thought a brake might be hanging up or getiing hot and sticking, so I disconnected them one at a time and ran it, same deal.

Everything electrical is new, so I doubt there's an issue there.

Carb clean, new filter, swapped plugs, etc

At this point I'm willing to try anything!
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:20 PM   #2
essness
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

Maybe a clogged muffler? Hopefully some of the smart guys will be along soon to help.......
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

Already BBQ'd the bejeezus out of it .. Also, just in case it helps eliminate anything, here's what's been done to the cart since it was ressurected from behind a barn this summer:

New top end and crank seals (not done by me, but 135lbs compression so I trust it)

Fuel system: Tank, lines, carb and jets thoroughly cleaned, new fuel and air filters, new hoses

Lg Electrical: All large wiring pulled, cleaned up thoroughly, ends replaced as needed. New Battery. F/R switch thoroughly sprayed out and worked w elec contact cleaner

Ignition: New keyswitch, accel switch, solenoid, regulator, pulsar, coil, HEI Ignition conversion, plug, wire, all connecting wiring and ends replaced with new, end to end (quite literally everything). Tach installed, new lighting installed (fused and with relay). Annoying reverse alarm wire tracked down and disconnected.

Misc: Muffler BBQ'd, hole in exhaust pipe repaired, driven clutch cover replaced (button too), governor restored to normal, then disconnected because well, why the hell do I want to go SLOWER? Crank seals checked again. Engine mounts tightened today (still need to be replaced, but lateral movement of cradle reduced to almost normal)

SO - after looking at my own list, and trying not to break into tears, I realized that the fuel pump is still old - but it's pumping great when I test it. There are no wires laying where they shouldn't be that might be getting hot, the HEI module is solidly mounted and thermal-greased to a bare spot I made for it on the frame (so it's staying fairly cool). I took it for another drive a bit ago without the seat so I could watch the clutches, etc and they seem to be doing fine (and nothing is changing with them when the cart bogs down and stops). I also rehokked the governor and throttled it back to a top RPM of 3020-ish, and it does the same thing as it did running wide open, gets to the exact same place about 1/2 mile away and dies...

AAAAAAARGH
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

What fuel/oil mix are you running bud?

Premix or injector?

EDIT: also--how's your voltage holding up? Have you checked the battery voltage when it stops?
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

What about your gas cap, have you tried to loosen it, your vent might be clogged, and you changed that cracked coil you had rite
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

So here is a scenario. Imagine you have a tiny crack in the diaphragm of your fuel pump which only leaks when it is being flexed by the vacuum / pressure of the engine running. You go for a drive and the pump starts to leak straight gasoil down the vacuum line and into the crankcase. After a period of time the crankcase is so full that the mixture is untenably rich so the engine bogs down and dies. Immediately the heat of the engine starts to evaportae the fuel and as the diaphragm is no longer flexing it is no longer leaking. Now you start but it is still too rich so it limps home but as the diaphragm is flexing much slower the leak is less pronounce so you make it home. Now you leave it half an hour and all the fuel in the crankcase evaporates and you repeat the cycle.

Remove the pump and take it apart, remove the diaphragm and check it very carefully. The pinhole will be almost impossible to see but it will be on the outer edge around the circle you can see where the diaphragm was clamped by the body of the pump. As a musician I am sure that you have delicate girly little fingers so it may be easier for you to run your fingers around the diaphragm and actually feel the crack rather than see it. If you do find a suspect area you can make a very temporary repair with some scotch tape. Before you dismantle the pump put a vertical mark down the side so that you put the lid back on in the right orientation. If you chose one of the five incorrect orientations the pump will foul on the starter bracket and make you cry.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

Thanks, Dave - that "Girly Fingers" crack just resulted in half a mouthful of Tecate all over the screen !!!! (More for YOU later in the post!)

PCB: The voltage seems to be holding OK, I'm getting 12.2-12.6 sitting, 14-ish while running so it looks like the charging part of the equasion is doing ok ... I'll take a spin in the AM and bring the DMM with me (I'll clamp it to the battery and put it on the seat next to me to keep a running tab on things while I ride, see if maybe there are some voltage hijinks occurring when it inevitably dies)

Rib: Yep, that coil is now a brand new one (although I must defend myself and my homebrewed epoxy/superglue repair - that sucker ran like a top for over a week like that!) - as to the fuel, Dave mentioned the venting a few days ago when this all started, so I drilled and tapped the big plug in the tank and installed a vent tube ...

Dave - the scenario you so eloquently presented makes good sense (even to a lowly musician!) - I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how the fuel pump could be intermittent, and the way you put it makes a lot of sense - I'm going to tear into the pump first thing tomorrow AFTER I throw the electric pump I have back on it and try it that way (I ran the cart with it for awhile back when I was still troubleshooting the original "resurrection" and wanted to eliminate the factory pump as a culprit) ... I figure what I'll do is pull the drive belt and run it for awhile at mid-high RPM's and see if it still does the same thing when it's warmed up if the pump doesn't solve it, maybe that will help me narrow it down.

Sidenote: just for fun tonight I jacked the cart up again and messed around with spinning the wheels, etc to ensure the rear end was working and sounding good and to be honest, it just doesn't feel as smooth as I think it should. There's no grinding or nasty clicking, etc but theres a very faint sound that i can best describe as what you'd get if you put a piece of 800 grit emery cloth against the clutch face lightly as it turned, does that make sense (or sound normal?).

Thanks for all the help Guys - I really appreciate it. Gonna get you for the "Girly Fingers" thing, though, Dave! :)
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:13 AM   #8
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

OK, first test of the day, fuel pump - check. Mine has a clear diaphragm (which I assume is normal) and it's in 100% condition (even used a laser line generator to look for any miniscule imperfections, holes, cracks, etc - aaaah the benifits of working with stage lighting!). The insulator looked fine too.

Took her for a ride with the DMM hooked up, started out at 12.2vdc sitting all night, fired right up and hmm ... at low speed (just above idle) she's charging at 14.2-ish, but at 3k RPM or above the DMM was reading over 18vdc at times (actually hit 19 for a second before I backed off), and it was always above 16 (even when I slowed down) - that's a little extreme, isn't it? Starting to wonder if I'm not boiling/overcharging the battery at speed, would that make sense and if so could someone explain it to me?
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewCityMusic View Post
Took her for a ride with the DMM hooked up, started out at 12.2vdc sitting all night, fired right up and hmm ... at low speed (just above idle) she's charging at 14.2-ish, but at 3k RPM or above the DMM was reading over 18vdc at times (actually hit 19 for a second before I backed off), and it was always above 16 (even when I slowed down) - that's a little extreme, isn't it? Starting to wonder if I'm not boiling/overcharging the battery at speed, would that make sense and if so could someone explain it to me?
My txt fried its battery because it was charging at high voltages like that and I didnt know it. Your voltage regulator is not functioning correctly if it is charging over 14v for any length of time.
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:49 AM   #10
BrewCityMusic
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Default Re: One last try, then I just quit !!!

Well, I swapped out the regulator for the old one (which I replaced along the way "just because") and now I'm charging around 14.4-ish most of the time (occasionally it'll still hit 16v for a second but then comes right back down to mid-14's)

I'm not ready to get too optomistic, but I DID just take about a 2-mile ride and (knock on wood) no problems, power stayed steady, wow - THIS is what "carting" is all about! Makes me feel a little better considering I found out the upper control arm/ball joints and idler arms on my 1-ton equipment van are shot this morning, so I'm already down $600 for the day!

PCB, looks like YOU get the points on this one! Thanks again for all the advice, guys!

EDIT: I was going to ask what the odds are of a brand new regulator being bad, but I just went over my notes from along the way and saw that at one time I had accidentally hooked up my first HEI incorrectly and not only screwed up that module, but I also wrote down that I "smelled electrical from ?" at the time - I'm wondering if that's when I smoked the new regulator, hmmm....

Last edited by BrewCityMusic; 09-29-2010 at 09:52 AM.. Reason: added info
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