Flasher Relay Question

[geoffarias]

I was helping a buddy with his Club Cart which I have never worked on as I have an EZGO. He was complaining about his turn signal cutting out when he turned on his headlights (looks like a Madjax LED light bar). The blinkers worked fine without the lights on but the minute you turn the headlights on, the blinker stops flashing and you no longer hear the relay clicking.

Upon inspection, he didn't have a voltage reducer installed. I read 16V at the stereo AND the relay. Chicken scratch attached to show the wiring I was dealing with.

So he ordered one and that is what we installed last night. I got it wired up and stereo connected. No problem. 12V at stereo.

Now onto the light harness.

Not sure what had been done as things looked like there was a lighting harness purchased but then stuff spliced into it. It was a mess and with the plastic cable cover and tight work space in the Club Cart (made me miss working on my TXT) without removing batteries, it was a challenge. Anyways, there was a wire coming off the negative post on battery #3. That was easy. Now to find where the positive was coming from. I was able to trace things and there was a black wired seemingly added into the wire harness (it had a butt connector showing on it) and going up into the controller box (black wire going tot he note 16V at relay in sketch). Again didn't have the time to open up the controller box but the wire appeared to be the only logical source of the other pole of power to the relay. Educated guess, crossed fingers and cut. No longer had 16V at relay and lights didn't work but everything else worked.

So I wire it into the voltage reducer and headlights - check. Taillights - check. Horn - check. Turn signal - nothing with the headlight on or off. measure voltage at the relay - 12V. Relay was this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Tu.../dp/B07GWL1YS3

Any ideas what is going on? My uneducated redneck theory is that since they had 16V running to the relay, it got over voltaged with use and would no longer operate with reduced voltage. Hence why it cut out when you turned the headlight on as the voltage was dropping from 16V to 14 or so AT the relay when the headlights were turned ON.

I told him I have no other ideas than maybe the relay is bad and order a new one. So waiting on that to plug in and see but figured the electric wizards on here may lend me some education.

[Sergio]

The wire on the battery negative post was likely the +16v connection and the 10ga black wire with the yellow bullet connector was the negative.

Technically that was not battery #3 as Club Car counts battery #1 being the pack positive.

Anyway, if you measure the voltage from that battery post, which is equivalent to the positive post of the previous battery that is connected to the same cable, You will find +16v with your other meter probe on the pack negative.

Edit: Missed the comment about the wire that was going to your "battery #3" is the one you need to connect to the +12v output of the voltage converter.

[geoffarias]

I get that. What I’m wanting to figure out is why the blinker would 1-not work with headlights on @ 16v or 2-works at all when wired to a 12v reducer

[Sergio]

The wire that was going to the battery was the positive +12v (+16v in that case).

You said that was the "negative" wire and later said the flasher relay had "-12v" .

I wanted to make sure you have the polarity correct.

The wire that went to the battery connects to the converter positive +12v output.

The other wire from the relay goes to the black wire with yellow bullet connector.

Your 48v-12v converter negative wires also connect to that same black wire yellow bullet connector.

If all that is correct, how are the turn signal lights failing, always ON?

If so and you have brake lights, does pressing the brake lights turn the low or high intensity rear lights ON?

[geoffarias]

Originally Posted by Sergio

The wire that was going to the battery was the positive +12v (+16v in that case).

You said that was the "negative" wire and later said the flasher relay had "-12v" .

I wanted to make sure you have the polarity correct.

The wire that went to the battery connects to the converter positive +12v output.

The other wire from the relay goes to the black wire with yellow bullet connector.

Your 48v-12v converter negative wires also connect to that same black wire yellow bullet connector.

If all that is correct, how are the turn signal lights failing, always ON?

If so and you have brake lights, does pressing the brake lights turn the low or high intensity rear lights ON?

Sorry that was typo. It was 12v. No reverse polarity. It was wired correct and I had the proper voltage at the relay. But it only
Opens when wired to provide 16v not when wired to provide 12v at the relay.

Turn signal was not always on. When wired to 16v it worked until you turned headlights on and then cut out. You turn headlight off and it starts blinking and clicking again. When wired to have 12v at the relay it doesn’t work period but headlights do

[Sergio]

I would guess there are multiple and isolated from each other negatives being used

Every negative wire should be connected together (or have a common connection), which includes both the input and output negatives to the voltage reducer.

They all need to come from that existing 10ga black wire with the yellow bullet connector as that is how the OBC in a club car keeps track of the energy removed from the batteries in order to properly charge.

You should only have a single cable on the pack negative battery post and no other wires.

The pack positive battery post is where the converter +48v input should be connected.

There should not be any other wires in the other battery posts.

You said there are tail lights and they come ON with the headlights but never answered if they are dimmer than the light that comes ON with the blinker (and brake).

The tail lights may be just be miss wired.

[Sergio]

I just though about something and it may explain why it is not working with the 12v converter.

You may not have had +16v at the flasher relay or radio at all depending where the meter negative probe was connected during the measurement.

If the cart has a 16v->12v reducer, those are "low side" reducers which means you run the 12v positive side to a +16v voltage source but the negative side must come from the reducer as it provides a voltage drop on the negative side.

Make sure there is not a 16v-12v reducer installed and if you have, remove it and run the negatives directly to the new 48v-12v converter.

[simicrintz]

I have a few things attached to my negative pack cable and will move them this weekend. My question is where do I get negative then since I cannot "ground" to the frame (like a car)? Hoping to do all the final connections this weekend and just saw this!

[Sergio]

simicrintz, that is only a concern if you have a working OBC as the current used by any accessory must pass through the OBC to be measured.

When you have a smart charger you can just run a single 10ga wire from pack negative to a busbar and then connect all accessories negatives as well as the reducer input and output negatives to that busbar.

The only reason to keep the converter negative input and output separate is if you have an "isolated" voltage converter and that would be clearly labeled on the converter and reflected on your wallet as they are more expensive.

[geoffarias]

Originally Posted by Sergio

simicrintz, that is only a concern if you have a working OBC as the current used by any accessory must pass through the OBC to be measured.

When you have a smart charger you can just run a single 10ga wire from pack negative to a busbar and then connect all accessories negatives as well as the reducer input and output negatives to that busbar.

The only reason to keep the converter negative input and output separate is if you have an "isolated" voltage converter and that would be clearly labeled on the converter and reflected on your wallet as they are more expensive.

He doesn't have an onboard charger that I am aware of. He uses this to charge the cart.

https://www.cloudelectric.com/produc...chargeplus.htm

I attached a picture of how cart was wired and numbered wires.

Wire 1 - going to stereo harness, 16V @ stereo
Wire 2 - going to stereo harness, 16V 2 stereo
Wire 3 - Light harness based on when I disconnected, that was only thing that stopped working. I didn't have a continuity tester with me unfortunately.
Wire 4 - Light harness based on same thing. Snipped off and measured voltage off where wire 3 was wired and wire 4. 16V.

Installed reducer off the entire pack. Wire 1 and 2 coming out of reducer, 12V perfect stereo worked.

Wire 3 and 4 wired to reducer. Lights work. Rear lights work, didn't check brakes but pretty sure when we drove it around after I remember seeing the brakes light up when I backed out of driveway. Turn signals DO NOT work. Voltage at relay when I check from reducer and at input into relay is 12V.

EDIT: Just realized OBC may be onboard computer. If I need to reconnect that then I am confused as to how to wire this thing up.