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Old 05-11-2022, 04:17 PM   #171
trig123
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

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Originally Posted by CP241 View Post
Don’t lose any of the wire nuts!
I won't dare do that

When using the HEI the engine don't have time advance which you already knew . Nothing inside the HEI that would control the advance like the original ignitors.

I would think you would need timing advance on these twin cylinder engines in order get get top performance.

Not sure why the first OEM ignitor I used didn't show any timing advance but it didn't. I must have connected something up wrong because I checked it again and it showed the mark moved when I opened it up.

Again it runs good using this Denso coil with HEI conversion and I guess you could say its better than the ebay and amazon ignitors people buy for $20.

Nothing can compare to what was installed on these carts at the factory in Augusta. OEM still rules over HEI . I just wish ezgo would listen and bring back parts for these carts but I know that will never happen.

This post is my opinion only and I am sure we will have people come here and tell us how good their cart runs after HEI conversion. The spark is not as bright and fast as the OEM plus no timing advance when using the HEI. Final answer
I am now going to cut my grass and take the rest of the day off and I am finished for now with this project >>>
Until I try something else lol
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Old 05-11-2022, 04:49 PM   #172
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Don’t forget to sweet the floor before you clock out

I agree. I was under the impression from what I’d read on the GM module that it’s got 20 degrees baked into it, but it was not adjustable and didn’t vary at all with engine speed. Guess what I read was wrong. If you can’t trust the Google who can you trust

Thanks for doing all the leg work. At least we know that there is SOMETHING out there that can be made to work if nothing else is available. Is it ideal, no. But it’s better than saying that the parts aren’t available, the aftermarket is crap, so just pull the motor and out a clone in. While the clone motors can be kinda fun, I’d never put one in my cart and say “this is it. This is the one”. Just not my cup of tea.

I do think with a little more playing, you could get very close to oem performance with a HEI. Even with no advance, you could manually advance the flywheel 10 degrees or so and eek a bit better response out of it. Cold starts would suffer a bit because of the permanent advance but once it’s warmed up it wouldn’t even be noticeable I don’t think. Also maybe a hotter plug or coil….

We know there’s options at least.

My personal option would be to call you, cry, and beg you to sell me an oem one from your private stash.
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:29 PM   #173
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Ok guys, another bad sleep! So here I am again up late. Or is it early? Who knows, who cares!

I can't see that the hei module would have any advance built in. Why would it? It was designed to replace a set of points in a distributor. Initial advance would be set by rotating the dizzy to a set position for starting and low idle, then the centrifugal advance would compensate for higher revs by moving the dizzy base plate. We know this because old dizzy engines could be tuned by changing the dizzy weights or springs to create a new advance curve. These original hei conversions used either the original points or a reluctor to fire them at a given point in crank position. Later engines use a crank sensor to fire them, but then you have no advance on your ignition. As CP has stated previously, later designs of hei used various sensors to talk to an ECU which then told the coil when to fire. This suggests that an auto igniter will work, but timing advance will be sketchy or non existent. Way back in time when brooms and wire nut were just a twinkle in some inventors eyes, recovery guys used a little box with wires and crock clips to get you running temporarily after an ignition failure to get the car moved. Basically a remote hei using whatever crank position device was on the car to trigger it and run in a kind of default mode.
I still think that some kind of igniter from a motorcycle or ski doo, that has ign advance controlled by reading engine revs would be what we need to find. Plus my theory on matching impedences between pick up and igniter plus igniter and coil may be on point. Yes Trig. Ezgo got it right, apart from the original design having no limiter built in which they quickly realised was an essential thing to incorporate. If the cam and con rods were set in bearings, it may not have been needed!

I think we have figured out most of the issues here, we just need to solve them.

The Hei module being used, seems to part solve the problem and gets the engine running fairly well on pre MCI, but fails on the MCI due to flywheel timing, no advance, different pulser impedence and/or a combination of some or all of these factors.

That's all for now folks, gotta take some pain killers and try to get some sleep.
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:41 PM   #174
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

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Originally Posted by Cartmaster View Post
Ok guys, another bad sleep! So here I am again up late. Or is it early? Who knows, who cares!

I can't see that the hei module would have any advance built in. Why would it? It was designed to replace a set of points in a distributor. Initial advance would be set by rotating the dizzy to a set position for starting and low idle, then the centrifugal advance would compensate for higher revs by moving the dizzy base plate. We know this because old dizzy engines could be tuned by changing the dizzy weights or springs to create a new advance curve. These original hei conversions used either the original points or a reluctor to fire them at a given point in crank position. Later engine use a crank sensor to fire them, but then you have no advance on your ignition. A CP has stated previously, later designs of hei used various sensors to talk to an ECU which then told the coil when to fire. This suggests that an auto igniter will work, but timing advance will be sketchy or non existent. Way back in time when brooms and wire nut were just a twinkle in some inventors eyes, recovery guys used a little box with wires and crock clips to get you running temporarily after an ignition failure to get the car moved. Basically a remote hei using whatever crank position device was on the car to trigger it and run in a kind of default mode.
I still think that some kind of igniter from a motorcycle or ski doo, that has ign advance controlled by reading engine revs would be what we need to find. Plus my theory on matching impedences between pick up and igniter plus igniter and coil may be on point. Yes Trig. Ezgo got it right, apart from the original design having no limiter built in which they quickly realised was an essential thing to incorporate. If the cam and con rods were set in bearings, it may not have been needed!

I think we have figured out most of the issues here, but need to solve them.

The Hei module being used, seems to part solve the problem and gets the engine running fairly well on pre MCI, but fails on the MCI due to flywheel, timing, no advance or both.

That's all for now folks, gotta take some pain killers and try to get some sleep.
Those good old HEI worked great and were easy to test. I used to put the distributor in my vise , connect 12 volts to the hot wire , ground the housing then spin the distributor with my hand while checking for fire. Man did the give a kick . Everything was contained inside the distributor and for GM it was a big plus. For me it was a big shock
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:43 PM   #175
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Wow, a multi tasker. Cutting grass and writing forum posts at the same time!
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:46 PM   #176
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

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Wow, a multi tasker. Cutting grass and writing forum posts at the same time!
I don't have but 1/2 acre to cut at my shop and the JD with 48 inch cut will do it in 30 minutes. Back to our project. Its late in the UK Cartmaster.
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:50 PM   #177
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

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I don't have but 1/2 acre to cut at my shop and the JD with 48 inch cut will do it in 30 minutes. Back to our project. Its late in the UK Cartmaster.
Back to the project? I thought you were done and taking the rest of the day off. I am beginning to not trust a word you say now.
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:52 PM   #178
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

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Back to the project? I thought you were done and taking the rest of the day off. I am beginning to not trust a word you say now.
I am working from home lol I can't sit still very long.
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:54 PM   #179
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

Fair enough! What we need now is someone who can reverse engineer oem igniters and produce a good quality product.
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:58 PM   #180
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Default Re: Talking through an ignition problem

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Fair enough! What we need now is someone who can reverse engineer oem igniters and produce a good quality product.
I took one apart. I guess that's a start .
This is what my brain sees when I close my eyes.
I used the wire nuts so I wouldn't waste my electrical tape. Got to cut things somewhere
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