1983 G1 relay question

[SLYS FARM]

This may be a long shot but could a bad relay connection be the cause for a no-spark issue on an old G1? I just realized the cart I've been working on doesn't have the relay box. The box is gone but the plug has been bypassed/jumped with a small piece of wire connected to two of the terminals. I recently discovered the relay was added to the G1 in 1983. That explains why my wire diagrams did not show one. In any case, I'm dealing with a no-spark issue, and before I get into learning how to test everything with a multimeter I figured Id ask if the relay or lack of one, could possibly solve the no-spark mystery ??

[mikeasis]

its a start delay relay intended to prevent changing directions to quickly causing engine damge. jumping the 2 white wires should complete the circuit.

check wiring coming out of the engine as this is an arear the wires chaff and get pulled on. clean all those connections as well as the pedal switch and the ignition switch. IIRC a bad key switch will allow the engine to crank but not prove spark.

[Lochlin]

Yeah, all that relay does is to delay the starter circuit for a couple of seconds to protect to engine from being started in reverse when it is still running in forward and vice versa. It doesn't have anything to do with spark itself. The first place I tend to look for "no spark" on a G1 is the cdi. I don't think that there is a test for it, though. You have to replace it and if you now have spark the old cdi was bad. If still no spark then the old cdi was good. It's a pain for sure.

[AGELE55]

You said: I recently discovered the relay was added to the G1 in 1983. That explains why my wire diagrams did not show one.

The 1983 G1A3 did not come with a relay. Don’t ask why. It’s one of the great mysteries of life. It was there prior to the 83 model, and again after the 83 model. I guess the Yammy engineers decided it was an oops moment when they deleted it.

I’ll try and get around to creating a simplified spark circuit diagram. In the mean time let’s see if we can get you some spark. First of all, you need to check the Black/White (B/W) wire from the CDI. It’s job in life is to kill spark. If this wire is grounded, you will never see spark. The B/W wire gets grounded when:
1. You release the gas pedal. The B/W wire leaves the CDI and is spliced to go to two different places. The first route it takes is to the pedal switch. When the pedal is not pressed the contact between the B/W and Black (B) wire is made, which shorts the B/W wire to ground, killing all spark.
2. The second route is to the ignition switch. With the switch in the OFF position, the B/W wire is shorted to the B wire via the ignition switch contacts, which as we know, kills all spark.
So your G1 has a double safety to make sure the motor stops running when you want it to.

Disconnect the battery. Now, with the key in FWD or REV and the pedal pressed, disconnect the CDI plug. Set your meter to ohms. Put one lead to the B/W wire leaving the CDI and the other lead to the frame. You should have NO reading whatsoever. None. Nada. It show then show a sort to ground by either releasing the pedal..OR.. turning the key to OFF.
We’ll start there and see where it takes us. Let me know.

[mikeasis]

Originally Posted by AGELE55

You said: I recently discovered the relay was added to the G1 in 1983. That explains why my wire diagrams did not show one.

The 1983 G1A3 did not come with a relay. Don’t ask why. It’s one of the great mysteries of life. It was there prior to the 83 model, and again after the 83 model. I guess the Yammy engineers decided it was an oops moment when they deleted it.

I’ll try and get around to creating a simplified spark circuit diagram. In the mean time let’s see if we can get you some spark. First of all, you need to check the Black/White (B/W) wire from the CDI. It’s job in life is to kill spark. If this wire is grounded, you will never see spark. The B/W wire gets grounded when:
1. You release the gas pedal. The B/W wire leaves the CDI and is spliced to go to two different places. The first route it takes is to the pedal switch. When the pedal is not pressed the contact between the B/W and Black (B) wire is made, which shorts the B/W wire to ground, killing all spark.
2. The second route is to the ignition switch. With the switch in the OFF position, the B/W wire is shorted to the B wire via the ignition switch contacts, which as we know, kills all spark.
So your G1 has a double safety to make sure the motor stops running when you want it to.

Now, with the key off and the pedal not pressed, disconnect the CDI plug. Set your meter to ohms. Put one lead to the B/W wire leaving the CDI and the other lead to the frame. You should have NO reading whatsoever. None. Nada.
We’ll start there and see where it takes us. Let me know.

i could be wrong but doesnt unplugging the Black wire with white stripe
put the G1 in maintenance mode keeping the engine running after starting it unless you turn the key off?

[AGELE55]

Originally Posted by mikeasis

i could be wrong but doesnt unplugging the Black wire with white stripe
put the G1 in maintenance mode keeping the engine running after starting it unless you turn the key off?

Sounds correct. I seem to remember playing with that a few years back. Somebody had a problem with their cart not shutting off. A pad pedal switch was the issue and I verified it on my cart. Without grounding the B/W wire, there is nothing to kill spark.

So…OOPS.. I gotta learn to stop giving advice before morning coffee..

I amended the previous response to get the circuit configured correctly for test.

[SLYS FARM]

Quick question: Using a test light on the orange wire going to the coil I have a good pulse. If I have power getting to the ignition coil, doesn't that confirm the CDI is functioning?
If power is getting to the ignition coil yet still no spark, doesn't that confirm the issue is now leading to the magneto/stator?
I went ahead and unscrewed the plastic wheel and hub to get a better look at the magnets. Of course, there was a build-up of dirt so I did my best to blow the dirt out, even using a small wire brush to get at the magnets as best I could.

With the 4 wires to the magneto disconnected I attempted to check them. I am pretty sure I did this wrong so please confirm. With everything connected,( stop switch, CDI, Battery)and No key in the ignition, With the meter set on continuity " sound" I first checked I had good ground at the black harness wire connector on the main harness. ( good strong beep) With one probe connected to the ground wire( main harness), I then probed each of the 4 magneto wires. I got a beep on 3 out of the 4 wires. I had no reading/ beep on the green/white wire coming from the magneto. Does this mean anything? Did I do this all wrong?? again, I did this with everything hooked up and before I read the above instructions. I am now going to follow the instructions, starting from square 1. I will check back in later with what I find and for a response to my questions.
Oh.. one more thing, I did use compressed air to blow out the stator magnets. Could I have made things worse or possibly caused more damage??

[SLYS FARM]

IMPORTANT: I forgot to mention in my above reply, ... after checking for continuity on the magneto connections and getting a beep on 3 out of the 4 wires I wanted to inspect the main harness wires, mainly the entire ground. I removed the layers of black tape all the way till it splices off at the coil wires. I did discover a bare spot on the ground ( black) exposing the copper wire and what appears to be a break/ bad spot on the green/white. These are the wires coming from the main engine harness. They are definitely old and brittle. I'm not about to unwrap the entire harness but I figured it would be a good idea to go ahead and splice in new wires ?? A bad spot on that ground wire could be the cause of all the intermittent no spark ??????????? Maybe I solved the problem and just now realized it?????? Hmmmmm

[AGELE55]

Originally Posted by SLYS FARM

IMPORTANT: I forgot to mention in my above reply, ... after checking for continuity on the magneto connections and getting a beep on 3 out of the 4 wires I wanted to inspect the main harness wires, mainly the entire ground. I removed the layers of black tape all the way till it splices off at the coil wires. I did discover a bare spot on the ground ( black) exposing the copper wire and what appears to be a break/ bad spot on the green/white. These are the wires coming from the main engine harness. They are definitely old and brittle. I'm not about to unwrap the entire harness but I figured it would be a good idea to go ahead and splice in new wires ?? A bad spot on that ground wire could be the cause of all the intermittent no spark ??????????? Maybe I solved the problem and just now realized it?????? Hmmmmm

The black wire is, or at least should be always grounded. The white wire with the green stripe is the voltage used to excite the magneto. So.. I’d say the white/green would definitely be a suspect.

[SLYS FARM]

do I check for continuity with the magneto bullet connector ground wire hooked up?