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Old 10-12-2012, 10:58 AM   #1
wfodave
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Default Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

I bought a used 2008 RXV several months ago, and the little 48V Powersmart charger that came with it died. I looked around, and didn't see many aftermarket chargers available with the unique connector that the RXV uses. I found and ordered a Thunderbull charger, but I am having problems. The first night when I plugged the charger into the cart, everything seemed normal, and I went to bed. In the morning, the cart was charged and my daughter took it to school. When she got back later in the afternoon, she plugged it back into the charger. She went out about 20 - 25 minutes later to get something she forgot, and she told me that the seat was hot. I went out and I could hear the water boiling in the batteries, there was a strong hydrogen smell, and the voltmeter was reading over 60 volts (I have an industrial Durant panel meter installed). I unplugged the charger and then plugged it in again, same result. Is the charger really supposed to go over 60V in order to charge the batteries? I know it has to be higher than the batteries 4 X 13.8V, but still it seems high. I have found out that this is is not a smart charger, and it simply charges for a set amount of time and then shuts off. I thought I saw somewhere that the charger for an RXV is supposed to somehow communicate status with the cart through the plug. I am wondering if this charger isn't doing that. In any event, this doesn't seem safe or right to me, so I called the company I got the charger from. They are skeptical that there is anything wrong with the charger, but say they will get an RMA to get it sent back to the manufacturer to be checked out. I am thinking that maybe this charger just isn't compatible with the RXV and really would love some input from the people on this board who have experience with his. Thanks!
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:45 AM   #2
rib33024
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Default Re: Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

Welcome to BGW

never heard of that kind of charger, a 48v battery pack will get up to 63 to 65 volts before the charger will turn off, but if that charger is not starting out at about 20 amps, and going down to about 6 - 5 - 3 amps at the end of the charge, it not doing a equalization charge, it should take about 6 hours to charge, if you didn't run the pack down below 48 volts before you recharge,
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:58 AM   #3
wfodave
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Default Re: Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

Here is a link to it:
http://www.diygolfcart.com/EZGO-Thun...ug-p/29533.htm
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:05 PM   #4
rib33024
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Default Re: Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

it should work just fine, like i said your pack will get up to around 58 to 65, volts before the charger turns off, scottyb or jonnieb will know more about this charger


"EZGO 48 Volt 20 Amp automatic Thunderbull charger with modular DC plug. For E-Z-GO electric 2008-up RXV 48-volt golf carts."
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:25 PM   #5
wfodave
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Default Re: Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

I just have never had a charger on any of my previous carts (all 36V) that would make the water/acid in the batteries boil. It just seems like that is a sure way to make your batteries die young. Is this normal?
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:39 AM   #6
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wfodave View Post
I just have never had a charger on any of my previous carts (all 36V) that would make the water/acid in the batteries boil. It just seems like that is a sure way to make your batteries die young. Is this normal?
The battery temperature isn't anywhere near 212°F, so it isn't actually boiling, it is gassing.
What is happening is called Electrolysis. When electricity passes through the battery's electrolyte (Sulfuric acid diluted by weight with water to a 27.7% concentration) the water in it breaks down or decomposes into Hydrogen and Oxygen. The gases collect on the plates and when enough accumulates, it bubbles to the surface and it looks similar to a liquid boiling.

During the early portion of the charge cycle, most of the electrical energy is used converting the lead sulfate that forms during discharge back into the sulfuric acid in the electrolyte and the lead and lead dioxide of the plates. Later in the cycle there is less lead sulfate that readily converts back to the original chemical compounds and more electrolysis occurs.

Attached is the recommended charge curve for Trojan batteries. (Other battery manufactures will have a similar curve)
The transition between a little gassing and a lot of gassing occurs at about 2.35V per cell, or around 56.4V for a 24 cell (48V) battery pack.

Gassing is normal and it is a good thing because it stirs up the electrolyte, which stratifies during charge and discharge.


Gassing is also why batteries use water. The sulfuric acid doesn't break down like the water does, so only water (distilled only) has to be added to the batteries during normal operation.

You also had a question about on-charge voltage.
If you notice the upper voltage on the charge curve is 2.79V or about 67V for a 48V battery pack.
Most automatic 48V chargers shut off quite a bit before that point, but you can take the batteries into that range without hurting them.

The actual criterion for a fully charged battery is when the Specific Gravity of the electrolyte ceases to increase while a charging current is passing through it. The on-charge terminal voltage is proportional the the Specific Gravity of the electrolyte, so it may also be used, however the electronics of most automatic chargers are not sophisticated enough to make that determination and they simply shut off when a predetermined voltage is reached.

Hope this helps more than it confuses.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:53 AM   #7
wfodave
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Default Re: Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
The battery temperature isn't anywhere near 212°F, so it isn't actually boiling, it is gassing.
What is happening is called Electrolysis. When electricity passes through the battery's electrolyte (Sulfuric acid diluted by weight with water to a 27.7% concentration) the water in it breaks down or decomposes into Hydrogen and Oxygen. The gases collect on the plates and when enough accumulates, it bubbles to the surface and it looks similar to a liquid boiling.

During the early portion of the charge cycle, most of the electrical energy is used converting the lead sulfate that forms during discharge back into the sulfuric acid in the electrolyte and the lead and lead dioxide of the plates. Later in the cycle there is less lead sulfate that readily converts back to the original chemical compounds and more electrolysis occurs.

Attached is the recommended charge curve for Trojan batteries. (Other battery manufactures will have a similar curve)
The transition between a little gassing and a lot of gassing occurs at about 2.35V per cell, or around 56.4V for a 24 cell (48V) battery pack.

Gassing is normal and it is a good thing because it stirs up the electrolyte, which stratifies during charge and discharge.


Gassing is also why batteries use water. The sulfuric acid doesn't break down like the water does, so only water (distilled only) has to be added to the batteries during normal operation.

You also had a question about on-charge voltage.
If you notice the upper voltage on the charge curve is 2.79V or about 67V for a 48V battery pack.
Most automatic 48V chargers shut off quite a bit before that point, but you can take the batteries into that range without hurting them.

The actual criterion for a fully charged battery is when the Specific Gravity of the electrolyte ceases to increase while a charging current is passing through it. The on-charge terminal voltage is proportional the the Specific Gravity of the electrolyte, so it may also be used, however the electronics of most automatic chargers are not sophisticated enough to make that determination and they simply shut off when a predetermined voltage is reached.

Hope this helps more than it confuses.
Thanks for the input. "Boiling" was a poor choice of words on my part, I knew it wasn't that hot, but I couldn't think of a better way to describe the bubbling that was going on. I guess I was anticipating a "smarter" charger.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #8
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wfodave View Post
Thanks for the input. "Boiling" was a poor choice of words on my part, I knew it wasn't that hot, but I couldn't think of a better way to describe the bubbling that was going on. I guess I was anticipating a "smarter" charger.
A lot of people call it boiling, in fact I've said it looks like boiling to describe what gassing is.

Your Thunderbull charger's IQ is about par for the course when it comes to golf cart battery chargers. The only ones I know of that actually look for the on-charge voltage to stop increasing are used for maintaining some huge battery back-up systems whose individual 2V cells are bigger than the individual batteries in our carts.

If that Thuderbull charger, which I cannot find any technical information on, decides to go belly up down the road a ways, the 48V DPI Scotty sells would be a nice replacement.
It goes into a float charge mode after the regular charge cycle completes.
http://www.cartsunlimited.net/48v_Battery_Charger.html
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:01 PM   #9
wfodave
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Default Re: Will a Thunderbull charger work on a EZ-GO RXV cart?

I was going to go with that charger, but when I called them they said they didn't have the triangular plug that the RXV uses. I was going to try to re-use the plug from my dead charger on this charger when I found the Thunderbull with the correct plug. Right now I am leaning toward seeing if the people I bought the Thunderbull from will take it back.
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